grobbo24 vs Cabot/Monument

[grobbo24]

Monument Sold a Disputed debt to Cabot, I had CCA'd Monument in January and obviously they have committed an offence.

When Cabot sent the welcome letter, I started the process again, which they defaulted on but have just sent the attached letter along with a copy of the application, as the agreement.

Can someone adivse me of a good reply to Cabot pointing out that this is an application and not an agreement as it does not have the prescribed terms on it.

I have searched on the forums but can't seem to find a letter, even though I'm sure there is one.

Here is the letter from Cabot

I regret that you have felt cause to complain to Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited ("Cabot") and apologise for any inconvenience that you may have suffered in relation to this matter. I am disappointed that Cabot has not been able to satisfy your concerns on previous ocasions.

I understand you have requested a copy of the original executed agreement for the above account.

The Cabot Financial Group purchased your account from Monument, the original lender, on or about 29th May 2007. The Cabot Financial Group, the assignee of your account, are entitled to collect the outstanding balance on your account and also to enforce the original terms of the credit agreement. Although Cabot has no obligation under section 77 and/or 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 to supply with information, Cabot will at all times assist its customers in order to provide information. Cabot at all times relies on the original lender to provide information in order to assist with your enquiries.

However, please find enclosed a copy of the credit agreement that you signed and agreed to with the original lender. Please note that on the copy of this agreement, your signature is supported by the statement "This is a Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Sign it only if you want to be legally bound by its terms". You shall note on the credit agreement that under the heading "Declaration" it states "Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974". Therefore, this constitutes a valid credit agreement, which is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and under the terms of the agreement.

Furthermore please be advised that although the original copy may not be available to Cabot via Monument, Monument has supplied Cabot with a copy of the original which you signed and satisfies all requirements from both Monument and Cabot. Under sextion 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 it states "the creditor...shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any)" and stress the words "if any". As re-iterated above, Cabot has been provided with a copy of the agreement from Monument and therefore, this satisfies all obligations from both parties. In addition please find enclosed the relevant terms and conditions which are applicable to this agreement.

The T&C's is a seperate photocopy of a monument T&C from 2003, when the application is dated 2001. There are no signatures on the T&C's and no signature of the Creditor on the alleged agreement (I have blanked out my info only)

If anyone can point me in the right direction of what to write to Cabot I would be most greatful.

[louiboy]

It's very small. I can't make out the prescribed terms of interest rates or repayment rates.

Have a look in this Consumer Credit Agreement thread.

[grobbo24]

Hi louiboy, there are no precscribed terms of interest rates or repayment rates on the application, so I know it is unenforceable but not sure how to reply to Cabot telling them it is unenforceable.

[grobbo24]

Hopefully this is better to read.

[louiboy]

Thats most definately an application form not an executed credit agreement.
"I am applying to Providian..." Gives the game away.
It's not an executed agreement or a copy of an executed agreement.

S87 CCA 1974 - Running Credit Agreement
The Creditor should supply a copy of the Executed Agreement (if any)
Copies of any other other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practical for him to refer.

There's not much point in pointing out the obvious to Cabot.
I would send Cabot a letter stating until they have complied with your statutory request under s77-78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. This account is in dispute and any further contact will be considered harassment and reported.

In the meantime report them to trading standards.

To comply as an executed agreement the document must contain.

Consumer Credit Regulations 1983

The prescribed terms specified in Sch 6 are as follows:
• amount of credit
• credit limit
• rate of interest
• repayments
Sch 6 was not amended by the 2004 Regulations.

Wilson and others v. Secretary of State for Trade and Industry (case law) An agreement is not properly executed unless the document contains all the prescribed terms. S61 (a). One of the prescribed terms is the amount of credit. Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553), regulation 6 and Schedule 6, para 2. The consequence of failure to state all the prescribed terms of the agreement is that the court is precluded, by section 127(3), from enforcing the agreement. In the absence of enforcement by the court the agreement is altogether unenforceable: section 65(1).

[grobbo24]

Thanks for the info louiboy, will add that to the letter as well as some other bits I got from your earlier link. I will definatley be reporting them to Trading Standards.

[Dowie]

I just found this letter somewhere on the board.

thanks for the reply on my thread btw.

Re: My request under s78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me dated 13th July 2007 the contents of which are noted. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter, dated 4th June 2007. Upon receipt of the original request the specified account legally entered into disputed status.

My request remains outstanding. An application form does not constitute a true copy of a credit agreement and that which you sent doesn't even contain all the prescribed terms and is not 'properly executed'. The statements sent do not correspond to the amount stated in your earliest correspondence and therefore they do not satisfy the requirement to supply me with a statement of account.

As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

You had until *insert date* to provide me with the true copy I requested. After that date you entered into default of my request. Whilst the account is in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agencies (or any third party).

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the data subject to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. Any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office.

The time limits, which are laid down in the Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 are clear. You must supply an executed credit agreement within 12 working days of a proper CCA request. If you fail to comply with a legitimate request the account enters a default situation and if you fail to comply after a further 30 days you commit an offence. You entered into a default on 25th May 2007 and subsequently committed a criminal offence on 25th June 2007.

Therefore you have 7 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint; otherwise your conduct will be reported to the Office of Fair Trading, the Financial Ombudsman and Trading Standards. Any investigation undertaken by them may affect your ability to offer credit in the future.

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

I look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully

[Jeff2000]

Originally Posted by grobbo24

Hopefully this is better to read.

Hi grobbo,


That certainly isn't worth the paper it is written on!


Regards, Jeff.