Claiming on a Business account? Lets join forces?

[Potiphar]

Hello,

Sorry if this seems like a silly question, but here goes.

I had a sole trader style business. it ran into difficulties. bank charged it lots of money. hit overdraft limit. bank closed ac and applied full (negative) balance to my personal account (i was on benefits at time following collapse of business). visit to bank converted this into an MLA (managed loan account) which seemed a good idea at the time as it meant i would be able to eat sometime soon. MLA obviously generates more interest for bank. MLA still exists.

I reclaimed charges successfully for my personal account in summer last year. I am now trying for the business amount. The charges I have identified add up to just under £1k, taking no account of interest. without realising the difference in required methods i blithely followed the standard moneysavingexpert method which worked so well for my personal account. i got as far as the letter with spready demanding payment.

I now have a letter back offering me a goodwill payment in the order of £250 with no admission yadda yada, but only if i accept within now the next 3 weeks or so. I'm currently quite broke and anything would be nice; after rebuilding my life i was made redundant and the spiral has been turning for the last few months.

the meat of the bank letter is:

"in the circumstances where a payment was requested by you that would, if met by us, lead to the account going overdrawn or over an agreed overdraft limit, we have to take time to consider whether or not to make this payment. if we agree to the payment then a daily fee is payable for this service for every day that you remain overdrawn or over your formally requested overdraft limit; if we do not, then a charge for returning the item may be applied. details of these charges are set out in our published Price List and the circumstances in which they will apply are also outlined in our Business Banking Terms and Conditions, both of which were provided to you either when you opened your account or as part of our periodic mailings. if your request for a refund proceeded to Court, we therefore believe that we would successfully resist any legal challenge brought against us in relation to these fees."

so, after that long background, my question is this: Should I hang tough and hold out for the full amount? Should I apply interest? Should I have taken any account of the MLA? The bank in question is HSBC.

Any advice greatfully appreciated!

[Goldlady]

IMO you should hold out for the whole lot. But it obviously depends on your finances and how long you can wait. The fact that they have made a goodwill offer suggests they know they are in the wrong.

Also, it sounds from what you have said that you have not included overdraft interest in your claim. We got business charges back without interest which we were quite happy with, but really the amount you are claiming would go up if you decided to include it. Perhaps you should give them one last chance to pay the £1k or so you have asked for and mention that you will be adding the o/d interest if you have to issue a court claim?

[hsbcfiddled]

Originally Posted by Potiphar

Hello,

Sorry if this seems like a silly question, but here goes.

I had a sole trader style business. it ran into difficulties. bank charged it lots of money. hit overdraft limit. bank closed ac and applied full (negative) balance to my personal account (i was on benefits at time following collapse of business). visit to bank converted this into an MLA (managed loan account) which seemed a good idea at the time as it meant i would be able to eat sometime soon. MLA obviously generates more interest for bank. MLA still exists.

I reclaimed charges successfully for my personal account in summer last year. I am now trying for the business amount. The charges I have identified add up to just under £1k, taking no account of interest. without realising the difference in required methods i blithely followed the standard moneysavingexpert method which worked so well for my personal account. i got as far as the letter with spready demanding payment.

I now have a letter back offering me a goodwill payment in the order of £250 with no admission yadda yada, but only if i accept within now the next 3 weeks or so. I'm currently quite broke and anything would be nice; after rebuilding my life i was made redundant and the spiral has been turning for the last few months.

the meat of the bank letter is:

"in the circumstances where a payment was requested by you that would, if met by us, lead to the account going overdrawn or over an agreed overdraft limit, we have to take time to consider whether or not to make this payment. if we agree to the payment then a daily fee is payable for this service for every day that you remain overdrawn or over your formally requested overdraft limit; if we do not, then a charge for returning the item may be applied. details of these charges are set out in our published Price List and the circumstances in which they will apply are also outlined in our Business Banking Terms and Conditions, both of which were provided to you either when you opened your account or as part of our periodic mailings. if your request for a refund proceeded to Court, we therefore believe that we would successfully resist any legal challenge brought against us in relation to these fees."

so, after that long background, my question is this: Should I hang tough and hold out for the full amount? Should I apply interest? Should I have taken any account of the MLA? The bank in question is HSBC.

Any advice greatfully appreciated!

Do not accept their offer -unless you are desperate.
Tell them that you are applying interest at the same rate that has been applied to you on the ML that consisted unlawful charges.

PM me your email address -details of when charges commenced -and the % on the ML and I will send you a spreadsheet.

[hsbcfiddled]

Originally Posted by GuidoT

I am too slow this is a response to post 994.

If they previously paid it, it will be on a without prejudice, gesture of goodwill, on the basis of proportionality and all that palaver and therefore cannot be used as a basis for reclaiming forwards.

I would strongly advise against a claim comprising of £63K of interest.

Do you have a thread on this claim?

Case closed - agreement reached

[TheyrCriminals]

Hello Guys,

Does anybody know anything about Lloyds TSB's new solicitors - Martineau Johnson? We have had a letter from them telling us they do not oppose the stay being lifted but would asked the judge to 'perhaps' consider keeping the stay in place as penalties will be considered in the OFT test case too.

TheyrCriminals

[lancasterchelsea]

I am dealing with them regarding my lloyds business claim
my judge stayed them claim and I have appealed
I have just written to Martin O Johnson a very good letter from slick132 which invites them to object to the stay
you can read my thread at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ss-1995-a.html

[TheyrCriminals]

Hi Lanacsterchelsea,

Could you please post the link to this letter please?

TheyrCriminals

[lancasterchelsea]

Criminals I think this is the link
Barclays:Business/Personal Bank Charges (POCs)

[lancasterchelsea]

it should link to post 34
a letter by slick132
barclays : review/personal bank charges (pocs)
if you cannot find it let me know and will try again or pm you a word doc
thanks

[lancasterchelsea]

Re: lancasterchelsea v. HSBC 1996 to 2000/business
I've gone through all the stages since last summer...........
dropped MCOL
switched to local court new N1 etc etc
today was told my business claim has been stayed !!!!!!
same as my lloyds business claim
ominously....
if I appeal (I have on my Lloyds claim) the fee is £75
and I have just been told if it gets to court....there is a hearing fee
of £300
In other words they are pricing claims out of the SMALL claims court

[tifo]

Originally Posted by lancasterchelsea

In other words they are pricing claims out of the SMALL claims court

I agree 110%.

Before Oct 2007, i would have got exemption, now the criteria has changed and i don't. Same circumstances for me, different rules from the court.

Many other people who, like me, started their claims last year and are now at the court stage will find that they are now out of exemption.

I would need about £5,000 cash to issue and carry on all my claims.

Damn justice.

[hsbcfiddled]

Originally Posted by lancasterchelsea

Re: lancasterchelsea v. HSBC 1996 to 2000/business
I've gone through all the stages since last summer...........
dropped MCOL
switched to local court new N1 etc etc
today was told my business claim has been stayed !!!!!!
same as my lloyds business claim
ominously....
if I appeal (I have on my Lloyds claim) the fee is £75
and I have just been told if it gets to court....there is a hearing fee
of £300
In other words they are pricing claims out of the SMALL claims court

Try sending this to the banks Solicitors and the Court and let both parties know that you have sent it them both.



FSA publishes review of 'waiver' on the handling of complaints in relation to unauthorised overdraft charges


FSA/PN/119/2007
21 November 2007
The Financial Services Authority (FSA) has completed its review of the 'waiver' of its complaints handling rules in the context of unauthorised overdraft charges. The waiver removes the obligation to deal with unauthorised overdraft charges complaints in the time specified under FSA rules. The FSA has concluded that the waiver is operating effectively and can remain in place.
The waiver was granted on 27 July 2007 to support the test case on unauthorised overdraft charges brought in the High Court by the Office of Fair Trading (OFT). The purpose of the test case is to bring certainty on whether these charges are fair and lawful. The waiver requires complaints to be put on hold until certainty is established and complaints about these charges can be dealt with consistently and fairly. The FSA pledged to review the waiver after two months.
Following detailed examinations of firms' compliance with the conditions of the waiver and extensive consultations with consumer groups and other stakeholders, the FSA has established that the waiver is meeting its four key requirements:
· An effective stay of proceedings in the courts of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland is in place;
· The Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) is likewise staying cases about unauthorised overdraft charges;
· Firms granted the waiver are complying with its conditions, including the need for clear communications with customers and appropriate handling of financial difficulty cases; and
· The continuation of the waiver remains appropriate to assist the test case.
Clive Briault, FSA Managing Director, Retail Markets, said:
"The test case between the OFT and the firms is a crucial step in establishing certainty about the legality and fairness of unauthorised overdraft charges. When this certainty has been established complaints about unauthorised overdraft charges can be dealt with consistently and fairly.
"The waiver we granted in July allowed firms to put complaints about unauthorised overdraft charges on hold until these complaints could be dealt with consistently and fairly. But it was important to review the operation of this waiver to ensure that it was working as intended. Our thorough review shows that it is appropriate for the waiver to remain in place.”
Particular concerns had been raised during the review period about the position under the waiver of complainants who may be in financial difficulty. The FSA is satisfied that the relevant part of the waiver is being complied with. However, in view of the importance of this issue, the FSA will carry out further work, in conjunction with the Banking Code Standards Board (BCSB), to check that firms continue to provide appropriate treatment of consumers in genuine financial difficulty.
The waiver review confirms that it remains appropriate for the waiver to continue to apply to consumers in Scotland and Northern Ireland.
The review has also clarified the status of small business accounts, which are not covered by the waiver. The FSA has agreed with the firms arrangements to ensure small business customers are not disadvantaged.
In the course of the review the FSA found that a number of firms had changed their terms and conditions in relation to unauthorised overdraft charges. In the waiver, each firm agreed 'it will not make materially adverse changes in the level of its unauthorised overdraft charges (or in ways that it applies such charges to its customers' accounts) which could amount to customer abuse'. The FSA will be closely monitoring how any change made by a firm will affect customers in practice and whether this amounts to a breach of the waiver.
The test case is expected to start in January 2008.
I think that clarifies the situation.

[lancasterchelsea]

thanks fiddled I have pmed you
I'll try the letter it looks good
but it will cost £75 (need form ???)
and it still might not get stay lifted
I don't mind spending the dosh, if I knew my chances were high

[hsbcfiddled]

Originally Posted by lancasterchelsea

thanks fiddled I have pmed you
I'll try the letter it looks good
but it will cost £75 (need form ???)
and it still might not get stay lifted
I don't mind spending the dosh, if I knew my chances were high

I would have thought that the Court should refund as they were no grounds for a stay anyway.

[TheyrCriminals]

Hi lancasterchelsea,

Thanks for posting that up. That's a great letter. Do we know if that letter had the desired effect or not?

TheyrCriminals