Claiming on a Business account? Lets join forces?

[c_allen]

Hi all,
well been on this site for months now with 1 claim won and a few ongoing so i know what i'm doing ish, but i do have a question regarding a business loan i was forced to take out to pay off my unauthorised overdraft on my business account, now all the overdraft was down to charges, so my question is, can i claim this back too, and if so why, what are the reasons.
i know i might sound a bit thick asking this but i'm sure i read somewhere when i first joined this forum that someone had a loan refunded that was to pay an overdraft off that was made up of charges.

[photoman]

Originally Posted by c_allen

Hi all,
well been on this site for months now with 1 claim won and a few ongoing so i know what i'm doing ish, but i do have a question regarding a business loan i was forced to take out to pay off my unauthorised overdraft on my business account, now all the overdraft was down to charges, so my question is, can i claim this back too, and if so why, what are the reasons.
i know i might sound a bit thick asking this but i'm sure i read somewhere when i first joined this forum that someone had a loan refunded that was to pay an overdraft off that was made up of charges.

Yes, there is a strong case for claiming back a loan that was taken out to repay borrowing when a fair portion of that borrowing was down to charges.
I believe several of the senior members have been working on this area, and also drafting up some spreadsheets to help tackle this. Bill-K posted a rough draft of such a spreadsheet he is working on, so maybe try posting a question on one of the threads he frequents (in the chambers of spreadsheets maybe)
Bassically, what you would be reclaiming is the interest you paid on the loan, plus any interest you choose to levy on that claim (ie Statutory or Contractual).
What makes this all a little more difficult to work out though is the following:
1/ If you have already reclaimed your charges, then you would not be reclaiming the basic loan amount also, otherwise this means that you would be attempting to claim the same sum back twice. You would however have a good case for reclaiming the interest portion of the loan that you paid that was as a result of the original charges.
2/As the Terms and conditions of your loan would be different to the Terms of a current account, there may or may not be a clause for remedy of a default within it, ie; if you fail to make a payment then said loan would not incur a charge, as that would come out of the origination account. So I suppose that could make claiming contractual interest on top of the interest more contentious. I suppose though that one could argue that the repayments resulted in your paying more interest or losing interest on the account they came from?

[MARTIN3030]

Yes this was claimed in the case of a user back in July.
You need to reconcile the loan to payments that would clearly show that it was used to repay/offset charges.
Should not be too difficult.

[MARTIN3030]

I have come up against another scenario that others may be faced with.
Its the case of claiming from an ex partnership business account.
If there was no legal agreements drawn up on the formation of the partnership the banks maintain that the other partner could later lay claim to 50% of the charges that may be refundable.
In my case no such agreement was ever made.
I submitted in my arguement that I took on the liabilities when the other partner left and therefore considered that I was entitled to all of the refund since I had paid off all the debts.
I informed the bank that should a claim be made later by the ex partner that I would challenge this in Court.
The bank was happy for me to give this in writing and will keep it on file.I therefore thought it would be good to let others know as it is discretionary as to whether they will agree........depends on the strength of your arguement I suppose.

[c_allen]

thanx for the info, really helpful

[louloujs]

What is it with BOS Business Charges? They appear to be dominating this thread, which makes me feel at home here as I've just tallied up the last 6 years BOS charges on our Limited Company account which amount to £13760 with interest = £15986.

The letters on this site (and particulars of claim wording) are suitable for Limited Co so I'm getting mine off today. Since I had great success with personal accounts claim against BOS, will address correspondence again to HBOS in Halifax. This will help since I don't want to upset our 'friendly' bank manager.

I'm just wondering how hard it's going to be to set up a parachute account for a Ltd Co? Don't think you could have two in the same name with two banks? Any advice on this would be really helpful.

Thanks for everyone's support on the site - this is going to be a scary one for me. I won £6k on BOS personal account, but this is bigger and the ramifications of being left without a business account a bit daunting. Are there any success stories for business account wins?

Lou

[andrew1]

I bank with Co-op via the Federation of Small Business. Membership if you don't already have it costs circa £70 a year and all banking transaction costs are free. Certainly worth joining the fs.b and C0-op are not a bad bank from a Ltd Co point of view.

[louloujs]

Thanks Andrew - We are members of FSB so I'll make some calls today!

I've just sent the letter to BOS claiming total of £15986! I've sent it to registered office as I don't want our (lack of genuine) Relationship Manager at local branch to hear about it just yet... OK, he scares me!

Let battle commence. Lou.

[hels bells]

hi

thank god i have found this thread, i thought i was alone, i too am in business with my hubby, i have gone through all the letters etc and have had to take Barlcays to court for my info, they will send me notification of charges for 2000-03, even received call from the main man Mr. Townsend., there argue that they do not keep such records for more than 3 years. I have info to the contray, however i have a court date for 13 april for 10 mins, i was wondering what i should take with me to court apart from the pack of info i have already sent. also if someone could simlify the interest charges on overcharges or show me how you have worked it out with and example that would help loads. The guy who is trying to claim loads are you using the fast claim track and if so can you expalin how you do it.. I know its a big ask but i don,t want to fall at this hurdle without even getting to the gud bit.:o

hells bells

[hels bells]

hi
correction,
they will NOT send me notification of charges for 2000-03, not as i have typed whilst trying to look busy at work.

hels

[scott150663]

im ready to send this into court on monday, i would appreciate any comments as i m paying £35.00 to ammend my original POC form. Please note this is a BUSINESS ACCOUNT

Claim No xxxxxxx account No….xxxxxxx


PARTICULARS OF CLAIM


1. The Claimant had an account with the Defendant which between the dates of
01/12/2000 And 01/06/2004 the defendant applied numerous default charges.


2. During the period in which the Account had been operating the Defendant debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

3. A list of the charges applied is attached to these particulars of claim.

4. The Claimant contends that:

a) The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit. b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the common law. The precedent for the law relating to contractual penalties was set in the case of Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage Motor Co Ltd (1915) AC 79. Additionally, in the case of Murray v Leisureplay (2005) EWCA Civ 963 it was held that a contractual party may only recover damages in respect of its actual loss or liquidated losses. They are also contrary to common law.

5. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £ xxxxand any interest charged thereon;

b) Court costs;

c) Interest pursuant to section 69 County Courts Act as set out on the attached list of charges or at such rate and for such periods as the court deems just.

6. Alternatively, if the charges are a fee for a service, then they must be reasonable under S.15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act (1982).

I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true


Signed: Date


THANKS FOR ANY REPLIES

SCOTT

JUST A NOTE AS IT MIGHT HELP SOMEONE IF YOU AMMEND YOUR POC IT HAS TO BE IN RED INK .......

[AJG]

Scott

I take it Nat West have just ingored you to date

All the very best (watching this with interest)

[andrew1]

Any Chance we can have a separate thread for Limited Companies? There are differences and I believe this thread is predominantly for sole traders and self employed business? Any thoughts?

[louloujs]

Yes, I agree. I'm a limited company and need to focus myself on putting the right words on paper. The thought of having to go back and change things, potentially losing more time until Deal Day is not a good one (sorry Scott, hope you get the wording right)...

Lou

[Largo]

Hi everybody-am in process of claiming for both personal (£675 and business (£11952) accounts with the Bank of Scotland.Heard nothing from Bank re business account despite having sent two letters. Phoned local court today and was told that I would have to consult a solicitor because of the amounts involved. Starting to crap it ! Will the fact that I don't have an overdraft or loan with my business account go against me ?
Any advice much appreciated x