Claiming on a Business account? Lets join forces?

[groovycaz]

Hi photoman and all
just a quick update with my claim from the uncooperative business bank, had a reply today which begins

Dear Groovycaz
Account Number****** ********
Our Ref:**********
Further to your letter dated 28 May 2007 regarding the above account. My investigation into the issues raised is complete and I am now in a position to respond.

As previosly advised financial institutions are only required by law to keep records for a maximum of 6 years. It is detailed in the statute of limitations that we do not have to refund more than 6 years of charges.

I note from our records that an offer in full and final settlement of your claim was issued to you on the 16 May 2007. Should you wish to accept this amount, please return the form duly signed.

Yours Sincerely

Joan Lyons
Customer Service Advisor

Well, again they have ignored the fact that I do not require them to hold my details further than 6 years I have all the information myself and im certain they are telling fibs that they DO NOT have to refund more than 6 years charges... any help in drafting a nice reply anyone....GC

[Celicaman]

Just trying to remember is get stuffed one f or 2 f 's

CM

[groovycaz]

Hi Celicaman seem to be following you about the site hows things?

It looks like its my last bugger off letter from them, I will file N1 on monday...GC

[photoman]

Originally Posted by gandolfi

Hello Photoman (and all on this thread)!
First of all, thanks for creating such a brilliant thread - it has been a really useful resource for me so far.

My case is quite complex and involves both personal and business accounts.
Gandolfi v NatWest

To sum up briefly, NatWest filed a claim against me for unpaid loan/overdraft debts. I am in the process of defending and counterclaiming for unlawful bank charges. It is quite a big claim, 16 years, loan interest, possibly CI, default removal, kitchen sink etc.

I have a couple of questions which I hope you may be able to help with.

1) I want to claim back O/D interest and the interest on unecessary business loans (also with NatWest) which I was encouraged to take out to pay off the debt caused by the charges (usual story it seems). Both types of interest were debited from my business account. There is a period where I am overdrawn AND paying off the loan at the same time....this is where I get confused.....

How do I enter the interest/balances in Mindzai's spreadsheet so that it can calculate the correct proportion of both sets of interest against the accumulated charges? Do I enter the O/D balance against O/D interest and the loan balance against loan interest?

2)Because my counterclaim will include both personal and sole trader accounts, is it OK to leave the consumer law clauses in my claim?

I have loads more to ask but will leave it at that on this thread for now.

If you are able to offer any specific help on my case do drop in on my thread if you have time.

Thanks again!
Gandolfi

Gandolfi,

Okay....... boy you've really cut your cloth thick here !!

I tried to paste in a sample of how I used Mindzai's sheet to calculate the interest paid on a loan account, that was down to repaying the original charges on another account.

The formatting was way out, due to the way the site deals with copy and pasting, but I'm sure you can work it out.

Okay, basically this is the way I have done it;

1/ Firstly you'll need to change the titles of some of the headings to reflect the fact that this is a different sort of calculation relating to a loan account.
Then:
On the right hand side;

1/ put in the date exactly one day before the loan started (get this from statement), and in the penalties to date, put in the cumulative penalties upto that date that you paid on the account this loan was used to pay off.
2/Then in the other columns, put in;
The interest date
The Interest charged
The account balance at interest date

All this information you can get from your loan account statements.
Remember to enter the account balance as a negative figure.
Also the interest free overdraft will always be 0.

Then this should tell you how much interest each month you paid on the loan account due to repaying your other account with this loan.

Whether you submit this by adding it onto your claim for the account you originally paid the charges on, or as a seperate claim for the loan account, is a matter of opinion?

I suppose that by also putting in this spreadsheet with your claim for the primary account might make the most sense, as that where the money came from to pay the loan each month.

eg; Say, if you paid £100 each month from your account into your loan account, and say on one month your interest on the loan account was £40, and £20 of that is calculated as having been applied as additional interest on the loan that has transpired as due to repaying your original charges, then you add a £20 claim onto your final total.
You will have to submit all the spreadsheets, and add the totals together on your claim, and provide your reasonings in your letters and on your Particulars of Claim.

Try this and see?

Maybe also have a look at the thread in my signature regards reclaiming interest on a loan used to consolidate borrowing due to charges, lots of views and pointers on there.

Hope this helps?

£0.00

[Celicaman]

Originally Posted by groovycaz

Hi Celicaman seem to be following you about the site hows things?

It looks like its my last bugger off letter from them, I will file N1 on monday...GC

Hey GC, just watching & learning
Got a hearing date 11th July so hope its sorted
by then.
After that i think i will go for the same account going back to 1990 including recent 'charges' and go for CI and overdraft charges. Trying to decide if its worth trying to work the spreadsheet, so year 1 (1990) work on apr of say 30% + depending on what it was that year and then the next year at what ever it was and so on,

Anybody think that would would work.
Only fill in one years worth at the the chosen APR, then copy paste into spreadsheet, then keep doing it for each year. Its closer than just a base CI spreadsheet that works on one APR, after all in 1990, the mortgage rates wers something like 15% so what were the bank charge APR's


should make for an interesting end result, Lets see oh i reckon £25k lol, tell you what tell the bank to just cough up a straight 20K and we call it quits

CM

[bright3945]

Hello Photoman and all in thread is this letter right for sending now [sole trader business account.]



I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my business account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law and contrary to Statute. The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the bank; exceed any alleged actual loss to the bank in respect of any breaches of contract ; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the bank which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit. The precedent for this was Dunlop Pneumatic v New Garage [1915] AC 79.along with Murray v. Leisure play [2005] EWCA Civ 963

If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.

Additionally, it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

I am frankly shocked that you have operated the account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.
I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.

Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.


I calculate that you have taken £185.00 plus £62 which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which you have taken. Total £247.00

I enclose a schedule of the charges which I am claiming with this letter

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.

Yours faithfully,

[groovycaz]

Hello Bright, it looks about the same as the letter I wrote to the BOS when claiming business charges, Im sure Photoman will look over it and advise better than me.....GC



Hey Celicaman
20k yes that will do nicely please....by way of a personal cheque of course

[photoman]

Originally Posted by groovycaz

Hello Bright, it looks about the same as the letter I wrote to the BOS when claiming business charges, Im sure Photoman will look over it and advise better than me.....GC



Hey Celicaman
20k yes that will do nicely please....by way of a personal cheque of course

Looks fine to me also. Nothing untoward inc.

Please, all, do remember I am not a Mod or site helper, just a claimant like everyone else on this thread.

Also, even though I may have started this thread, I do not consider it my own, it is for the benefit and use of all Business claimants.

PM

[tonycee]

Hello people...
I just wondered if anybody could tell me anything about
Account Control Management Fees......Have been a sole trader for 17 years, and am just about to start reclaiming my charges, but want to get it right..........Basically this is what happened.....

They would charge me £20 to look at a transaction, and then £30 to reject it... £50 in one go.....
Just because this is called a FEE, does it make it legal?, or can i claim the charges back.....Many thanx......

[photoman]

Originally Posted by tonycee

Hello people...
I just wondered if anybody could tell me anything about
Account Control Management Fees......Have been a sole trader for 17 years, and am just about to start reclaiming my charges, but want to get it right..........Basically this is what happened.....

They would charge me £20 to look at a transaction, and then £30 to reject it... £50 in one go.....
Just because this is called a FEE, does it make it legal?, or can i claim the charges back.....Many thanx......

Tony

I've never heard of such fees?
What bank was this ?

Sounds to me absolutely outrageous !!

And in my view it just actually further backs up our contention that the reject fee is a penalty !!

Okay, perhaps they may be able to claim (and possibly even show), that due to the status of the account they had to monitor the transaction, so they may try to claim the £20 was for a service.
But that would only wash if they had charged the £20 for monitoring EVERY transaction, even the ones that cleared.
To then charge another £30 to reject it is without any doubt in my mind a penalty.
They would have to prove that there was another £30 worth of "service", work, or costs involved above and beyond the £20 they had already charged.

I do hope that some others here see your post and comment.

Outrageous !!!:o

[groovycaz]

HI Tony
The Cooperative Business Bank charged me between £5 and £15 "management time fees" 10 years ago and ive included these charges, ive asked them to proove manual intervention but of course they only hold customer account information for 6 years!!!!!GC

[groovycaz]

Oh
and £15 for the rejection letter..GC

[tonycee]

Thank you people...The bank was Barclays and there is no getting away from it as thats exactly as they print it on my statements...
"Account Control Management Fees"
I want to go back to 1990 with CI on this one as the amount equates to enough to get my life back, but you can appreciate i have to get it right first time.....So far i have gone back 6 years with 8%. I submitted my court claim on Tuesday so i have a few weeks yet before i start again.
Sorry for gatecrashing thread, but am getting nowhere fast.

[bright3945]

Originally Posted by photoman

Looks fine to me also. Nothing untoward inc.

Please, all, do remember I am not a Mod or site helper, just a claimant like everyone else on this thread.

Also, even though I may have started this thread, I do not consider it my own, it is for the benefit and use of all Business claimants.

PM

Hi.
thanks photoman and all you other guys This my trial bank account to get me started. Going to start on Ltd company soon. { Can I use this letter to. for that business account.

Bright.