This forum

[steven4064]

Business claims have always had to rely purely on the argument that bank charges are unlawful contract penalties since the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999 (UTCCR1999) do not apply to business accounts.

The UTCCR1999 were the main focus of the recent OFT 'test case' but one of the other decisions in the judgement was that bank charges do not constitute contract penalties, at least in contracts based on current bank terms and conditions for personal current accounts. It appears that the OFT is not going to appeal this decision.

If the same applies to business account terms and conditions (and there is no reason to suppose otherwise) then it has left us with no cause of action - that is, with no basis in law to reclaim bank charges on business accounts.

The purpose of this forum is to try and develop a strategy for business claims. At this stage the most important common feature is that the claim is a business claim rather than which bank is involved - that is why we have brought all business claims together in one forum.

There is a possibilty that bank charges on accounts with older T&Cs might still be deemed to constitute contract penalties. That is the first thing we would like to look at.

We would also like to look at other aspects of law to see if there are other legal principles, statutes or case law that might be used to build a case for the unlawfulness of bank charges on business accounts.

[photoman]

I am really pleased and welcome this new forum.

Thank you CAG.

Many Business claimants until now have struggled to find relevant information and help with regards their claims, because their threads and thus claims have been grouped by institution rather than by relevance.

Hopefully now it will become easier to find others in the same situation, and share and help each other.

Many Business claimants may know me through the general Business claims discussion thread I started a while back, which I was pleased to see become so popular became a good place for Business claimants to help each other out.
That thread has now grown to quite a size, so may be a bit off putting, but I do encourage anyone making a Business claim to try to read through it if possible, as it provides a potted history of Business claims to date.

I think this forum could benefit from a new general discussion thread to thrash out fresh ideas and general strategies in light of the current OFT case. I have just started one here:

Post OFT case: Strategies for Business claims (discussion thread)

All are encouraged and welcome to join in, but it would be best if those doing so did not actually post ongoing updates or histories etc of their own specific cases (unless it is specifically relevant to devising new strategies) and instead keep such to or start their own threads.

[zootscoot]

Just to add that there is no reason why business claimants should not go through the Ombudsman. It costs nothing and it may prove to be succesful as the Ombudsman is not strictly bound to follow the law. If you do try this route let us know how you get on by starting a new thread

[Trailer]

As a business that almost went to the wall because two banks decided to have a row over whose account was the main one - we had frozen accounts for three years which of course had charges placed on them as no overdraft of any sort was allowed and "uncleared Balances" was the usual problem. We finally got a ruling from OFT (and £250 paid for the delay in time the bank took) BUT they did not insist that the charges should have been repaid as our "overdraft Limit" became due for renewal about the time it happened and "Banks do not have to grant overdrafts to businesses" That was 6 years ago unfortunately. Do not trust OFT to come down on your side.

Meantime I had found that our FSB MBNA card is being debited for "Late Payment" no matter how many payments are made in the month or when they are made.

[steven4064]

Hi trailer

You can still claim for charges over 6 years old - you just claim you paid them in the mistaken belief they were lawful and then claim them under s32 of the Limitations Act 1980

[Trailer]

Where can I find the s32 of the Limitations Act? We totalled it up to about £2000.00! Praise to Bank of Scotland who did rescind all charges themselves and paid up the £150.00 but the NatWest really put the boot in. We ended up changing banks.

[100mel]

I put my business claim with Yorkshire Bank to the Ombudsman. I've just had a letter back from the Ombudsman today to say that Yorkshire have refused any sort of settlement. It says

1. the charges are not unlawful as penalties under common law

2. the UTCCR apply only to consumer contracts

Has anyone any comments on this. FOS has gone back and asked them to outline their position in more detail - also I think they should be asking the bank for an accurate costing on these charges........

Mel

[photoman]

Originally Posted by 100mel

I put my business claim with Yorkshire Bank to the Ombudsman. I've just had a letter back from the Ombudsman today to say that Yorkshire have refused any sort of settlement. It says

1. the charges are not unlawful as penalties under common law
Yorkshire bank would say that !! We all beg to differ, and it will be interesting to see what they have to say in further detail in response to the FOS.


2. the UTCCR apply only to consumer contracts
That is indeed correct, as the clue is in the title Unfair Terms in CONSUMER Contracts Regulations. A business claimant should avoid using or quoting such regs. There are more ways to skin a cat however.

Has anyone any comments on this. FOS has gone back and asked them to outline their position in more detail - also I think they should be asking the bank for an accurate costing on these charges........

Mel

I gather that there is some work going on behind the scenes regards the current status and approach for Business claims. If you do not get a result from the FOS, then I suggest you wait a short while and keep an eye on this forum before escalating matters to a court claim.

Best regards

PM

[100mel]

Actually I had never referred to the Unfair contract terms - they did in all their standard letters - merely as guided by this site ! It will be interesting to see what comes in response to my suggestion that the FOS request a full cost breakdown of the cost of bouncing a cheque etc

Mel