consumer forums consumerforums Total Bank Charges Returned : £16595128 to 9717 people. The Consumer Forums  
Bank Charges Refunds Survey | 'Buddy' System | Get an email address | Site Map | Registration Problems | FAQ
CAG Products - We think that these will help you to make your claim or Reclaim your Right

These sales also help us to keep helping YOU and keeps this site free of third party adverts!

Small Claims Kit Small Claims Court Guide
**New Edition**
CallBurner - Skype
CallRecorder Review
Last Will & Testament Kit Fight a Motoring Ticket
 
Alternatively you could purchase a CAG email address here, or maybe you'd prefer our address labels here


UPDATE: Consumer Forums ConsumerWiki is now LIVE - click here: ConsumerWiki

N.B. Please note - due to postage costs these products are only available in the U.K.



Consumer Action Group envelope labels
You are part of a community of over 195,000 people.
Let your bank know that you won't give in.
Display one of our labels on your envelopes.
Full description here
Sheet of 20 self-adhesive envelope labels
£3.50 inc p&p





Reclaim the Right!
The Lawpack Small Claims Kit contains everything you need to get your bank charges refund. Sample forms, Instruction manual, template forms and an entire set of court forms in .PDF format on CDRom.

Just type in the details of your claim and print them out.


Reclaim the Right!


Sue your bank as often as you like with one Lawpack!!

With a Lawpack and Patricia Pearl’s book on Small Claims, you have everything you need to get your unfair bank charges refunded or assert other consumer rights.
(England & Wales only)

CAG Forum Users Price £11.99
(click image to buy)
Plus £1 P&P



Reclaim the Right!


New Edition
Small Claims Procedure by Judge Patricia Pearl
An excellent guide for the layperson
Not for use in Scotland
Read BF's Review Here




Stand up to Telephone Harassment

If you use Skype -
Record your phone calls with CallBurner
It's Hot!

Click below to download your
14 day trial copy
CallBurner
Skype CallRecorder download


Read the
Explanation and review here
£31.96 - includes 20% CAG discount
(normally £39.95)

We've managed to negotiate a discount for CAG Users on DIY 'Willpacks'


Click on the image to purchase a Wills kit - £12.99 + £1.00 pp

Remember...you can't take your reclaimed bank charges with you ;-)



Do your Internet search here



Reclaim the Right Ltd. - reg.05783665 in the UK
reg. office:- 923 Finchley Road London NW11 7PE
Do your Internet search here:-
Come and chat with us here (NB: External site NOT affiliated with CAG)

  CAG Announcements
 
Welcome Guest
Please register
Registration is free
There are no charges for using any of the facilities of this website.
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. You will have to register before you can post. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
You will also have to register to access our template letters and claims forms
registration is free
Are you being threatened over debts more than 6 years old?
This may be unfair
See our new Unfair Trading Guide
Bought an extended warranty?
Not satisfied?
The warranty may be an example of unfair trading
See our new Unfair Trading Guide
Have you been defaulted?
Would you like to clean up your credit file?
Check it out
Are you a victim of unfair trading?
Check it out
The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regs 2008
Have you been defaulted?
Would you like to clean up your credit file?
Check it out
 
Bank Action Group Debt Action Group
 

Go Back   The Consumer Forums > The Consumer Forums
The Bank Action Group - against unlawful bank charges
> General > Business claims for bank charges

Business claims for bank charges Claims by businesses for the return of bank charges may pose special problems. Discuss your problems here.


Welcome to The Consumer Action Group

and
The Bank Action Group


Before beginning to claim your bank charges be sure to read the FAQ by clicking the link above. Read it carefully and also read as much of the forum material as you can manage before you start claiming your bank charges refund. You will have to register before you can post or view the materials which may assist you in reclaiming your penalty charges: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. Understand what you are doing and you will be able to Reclaim the Right more effectively.

Why don't you come and introduce yourself in the Welcome section at the top of the forum. Then have a look around the rest of it.
Do not post or start claiming until you have read the entire FAQ section and step by step guides and you have a good basic idea of what to do and of the layout of the forum.
Good luck claiming your bank charges.
We strongly suggest that you register under a UserID and not your own name

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 14th April 2008, 09:41   #81 (permalink)
nicklea
Gold Account Customer
 
nicklea's Avatar
 
Watch out, there are Claims Touts about!

Challenge your credit file?

Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 564
nicklea Informativenicklea Informativenicklea Informativenicklea Informative
Default Re: Business Account -chasing Me For Guarantee

dhoom, just a few comments from me that I hope might be helpful

BETWEEN

BARCLAYS BANK PLC CLAIMANT

AND


DHOOM DEFENDANT





BARCLAYS BANK PLC

DEFENCE AND COUNTERCLAIM

DHOOM

Background

1.
[Iam the Claimant and Litigant in Person in this case. The guarantee referred to in this case is normally provided for by the Director which I am/was not, not sure how relevant this is] The initial negiotation that were made between Limited (company) and the claimant was to provide overdraft facilities (OD) for a period of 3 months to around end March 2006 I agreed to act as guarantor in the amount of £xxxxx in respect of the OD.

2. During the period in which the Account
[what account]was operating the Claimant debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of [Delete purported] breaches of contract on the part of Company and also charged interest on the charges once applied. I understand that the Claimant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Company.

3. A list of the charges ("the Charges") applied is attached to this defence and SET OFF. The total
[ maybe delete this being £xxxxxincluding interest is] believed to be£ xxxxx. The Defendant contends that this is like to increase once all the information has been obtained from the Claimant
.
4. Due to the amounts the
Claimant debited in unlawful charges the Company had used up its entire OD to service this and had to seek extra facilities from the bank. (Does he have evidence to back this up if so need to state were the evidence is) [If there’s no evidence to hand then maybe say something like. Evidence of this is contained in the documents that I requested be disclosed by the Claimant] In the interim around the late 2006/early 2007 (surely this would be a precise date?)the Claimant called upon the OD facilities which left the Company no option but to cease trading.

5. In early 2007, the Claimant called in the guarantee from myself.


6. On xx FEB 2008 I made a request to the Claimant’s solicitors under Civil Procedure Rules Part 18 (did he?)to provide all relevant information in respect of the account and this claim. To date the claimant has ignored my request under the CPR and I have not received any such documentation requested. As a result it has proven difficult to compose this defence without disclosure of the information requested, especially given that I am Litigant in Person.

7. I respectfully request that the Claimant be ordered to disclose the requested documents and that following sight of them I will seek the permission of the court to amend this defence and present a more fully particularised defence.

Defence

The Guarantee

8. This guarantee imposes a secondary obligation on me:-

“in a contract of guarantee the surety assumes a secondary liability to answer for the debtor who remains primary liable;” (Chitty on Contracts (29th Ed) Vol 2 para 44.013)

As a result, I have all the defences available to the debtor and I am discharged automatically (under the rule in Holme v Brunskill (1878 ) 3 QBD 495) if there is any variation of the arrangements with the principal debtor without my consent which might prejudice my interests. (Marubeni Hong Kong v Government of Mongolia [2005] EWCA Civ 395 per Carnworth LJ).

9. It was confirmed in Triodos Bank NV v Dobbs [2005] EWCA Civ 630 that, despite any language incorporated into the guarantee designed to displace the rule in Holme v Brunskill, the express consent of the guarantor must be obtained unless the changes are minor or expressly provided for in the original agreement.

10. To the best of my knowledge this guarantee was for the purpose of securing the overdraft facility for a period of 3 months which would have expired around end March 2006. [It seems that there were some changes to this which I was not notified - A little vague would need to be more specific and and refer to any actual changes] .I submit that these variations were not minor and were not expressly provided for in the original agreement and therefore the rule in Holme v Brunskill applies and I should be automatically discharged.

11 Further, or alternatively, it was represented to me by the Claimant that the facility I was to guarantee would last for 3 months. (was this written or verbal) I submit that this was a misrepresentation of the true facts and it did induce me to sign the contract of guarantee. I submit that this was a negligent misrepresentation under s2(1) Misrepresentation Act 1967 and I claim damages (how much and for what - rescission?) pursuant to this, the amount being at the [discretion of the court - damages for misrep are not discretionary they must be pleaded and proved. I refer also to the authority of [Millett v Stanley Works Ltd [1997] EWCA Civ 2469. - why] that misrepresentation to a guarantor of the true facts leads to the guarantee being unenforceable


12. I also contend that as a direct result of the Claimant the Company, had no choice but to stop trading resulting in defaulting over the OD facilities. [what point is this trying to make?]

Set-Off

13. The Claimant is claiming for money owed by Company. which operated an account [account number]with the Claimant which was opened around Nov'2005 and I don't know whether this is still open or closed. Neither has the Claimant provided a statement detailing the exact amount owed.

14. During the period in which the Account was operating the Claimant debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Company. and also charged interest on the charges once applied. I understand that the Claimant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between the Company and itself. -
Is this not repeatingpara 2 - would need to refer to the terms which were breached

15. A list of the charges applied is attached to these particulars of claim.

16. The
Defendant contends that:

a) The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Claimant; exceeds any alleged actual loss to the Claimant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Company and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Claimant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.
- isn't this from the old POC?

b) The contractual provision that permits the Claimant to levy such charges
is a disproportionate penalty and as such is unenforceable by virtue of the common law. The precedent for the law relating to contractual penalties was set in the case of Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage Motor Co Ltd (1915) AC 79. Additionally, in the case of Murray v Leisureplay (2005) EWCA Civ 963 it was held that a contractual party may only recover damages in respect of its actual loss or liquidated losses.

c) The claimant has been unduly enriched by having this money

d) There is a right of set-off with regard to these charges and the interest paid on them.

17. Accordingly I claim the following amounts should be set-off against any claim the claimant might have against me:

a) The amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £xxxxx
and any interest charged thereon.[ you’re claiming the interest in b below] also what about all charges you don’t know about – unless of course you’ve got all the statements. You said in point 3 above that this figure is likely to increase so you need to take account of this as well. Maybe say something like amounts debited in respect of charges the total amount of which will be detailed following disclosure by the Claimant but is in excess of £x

b) Any interest charged by the Claimant to the Account as a result of the charges being applied, the exact amount to be detailed when the Claimant complies with my CPR 18 request;

c) I also claim compound interest at the claimant’s standard rate for overdrafts for the restitution of the time value of the charges and interest thereon on the basis that the Claimant has been unduly enriched by having the use of this money. The authority for this is Sempra Metals v Inland Revenue Anor. [2007] UKHL 34. Lord Nicholls of Birkenhead [sorry I left of his full title] in the leading statement said:-

“There can only be one answer on this important question of law. Nobody has suggested a good reason why, in a case like the present, an award of compound interest should be denied to a claimant. An award of compound interest is necessary to achieve full restitution and, hence, a just result. I would hold that, in the exercise of its common law restitutionary jurisdiction, the court has power to make such an award.”

d) In the alternative to (c) above, if the court should find that I am not entitled to compound interest, then I claim interest pursuant to s69 County Courts Act.

Indemnity Clause
18. The contract of guarantee contains a separate indemnity clause. I submit that this clause is unreasonable within the meaning of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and, as such, is unenforceable. I note that under s11(5) of this Act that it is for those claiming that a term satisfies the requirement of reasonableness to show that it does. - Have the bank used the indemnity clause?
I see what you mean – if the bank haven’t raised this issue in the POC then maybe leave out the bit about the Indemnity Clause – but keep it handy just in case they come back later or in the court case with it.

Basically what the indemnity clause says is that if they can’t get all the money from you through the guarantee (ie you successfully manage to defend against them) then they are entitled to get the money from you anyway as a result of this indemnity clause

Costs
19. I claim all court and other costs associated with defending this claim.
nicklea is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 14th April 2008, 10:17   #82 (permalink)
dhoom
Basic Account Customer
 
Watch out, there are Claims Touts about!

Challenge your credit file?

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 117
dhoom Novitiate
Default Re: Business Account -chasing Me For Guarantee

Thanks Slick and nicklea, I'll will incorporate the amendments, also forgot one very important factor that the bank wanted me to sell my house and cover this OD.
dhoom is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 1st August 2008, 19:52   #83 (permalink)
BeleagueredSinner
Basic Account Customer
 
BeleagueredSinner's Avatar
 
Watch out, there are Claims Touts about!

Challenge your credit file?

Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 24
BeleagueredSinner Novitiate
Default Re: Business Account -chasing Me For Guarantee

Any progress on this one?

I noted it with interest, but am worried that the situation relating to reclaiming 'unfair charges' from business accounts was now all but impossible.

See link:

My business bank charges reclaim hell | This is Money
BeleagueredSinner is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2008, 12:02   #84 (permalink)
dhoom
Basic Account Customer
 
Watch out, there are Claims Touts about!

Challenge your credit file?

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 117
dhoom Novitiate
Default Re: Business Account -chasing Me For Guarantee

NEED a bit of clarification

If a judge has ordered

That the claimant by 4.00 pm on a certain date send to court and the defendant a reply to the defence.

and the claimant doesn't, what do I do next
dhoom is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2008, 12:28   #85 (permalink)
elsinore
Platinum Account Customer
 
elsinore's Avatar
Default Re: Business Account -chasing Me For Guarantee

If the order states what will happen if the Claimant fails to submit the response (an unless order) then the court will act accordingly.

If not, then you can apply to the court for an order that the claim is struck out.

Either way it's worth a call to the court to check if there is anything in the pipeline.

How much time has elapsed since the sumission date passed?

Els
elsinore is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2008, 12:37   #86 (permalink)
dhoom
Basic Account Customer
 
Watch out, there are Claims Touts about!

Challenge your credit file?

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 117
dhoom Novitiate
Default Re: Business Account -chasing Me For Guarantee

not elapsed yet
dhoom is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2008, 12:41   #87 (permalink)
elsinore
Platinum Account Customer
 
elsinore's Avatar
Default Re: Business Account -chasing Me For Guarantee

Ah! I see - planning ahead!

Els
elsinore is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2008, 13:24   #88 (permalink)
dhoom
Basic Account Customer
 
Watch out, there are Claims Touts about!

Challenge your credit file?

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 117
dhoom Novitiate
Default Re: Business Account -chasing Me For Guarantee

Quote:
Originally Posted by elsinore View Post
Ah! I see - planning ahead!

Els
Indeed
dhoom is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2008, 21:10   #89 (permalink)
humbleman
Gold Account Customer
 
Watch out, there are Claims Touts about!

Challenge your credit file?

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 544
humbleman Novitiatehumbleman Novitiate
Default Re: Business Account -chasing Me For Guarantee

Quote:
Originally Posted by elsinore View Post
If the order states what will happen if the Claimant fails to submit the response (an unless order) then the court will act accordingly.

If not, then you can apply to the court for an order that the claim is struck out.

Els
I might need to do this with one of my cases, is there a from that I need to fill in to have the claim struck out. What practically happens once I fill the form in.
humbleman is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2008, 00:50   #90 (permalink)
elsinore
Platinum Account Customer
 
elsinore's Avatar
Default Re: Business Account -chasing Me For Guarantee

Quote:
Originally Posted by humbleman View Post
I might need to do this with one of my cases, is there a from that I need to fill in to have the claim struck out. What practically happens once I fill the form in.
You can make an application to the Court using form N244. If it’s a High Court case it will be an N244 (CC).

You can state whether or not you want a hearing to consider your application. (The judge won’t necessarily agree with your request).

Courts don’t like awarding judgment by default if they can ‘persuade’ a defaulting party to comply and have the case heard. So they might give the Claimant another chance to comply by a certain date, failing which the claim will be struck out.

Whatever the judge decides to order after considering your application, will be advised to both parties in a Notice.

I thought the fee was £40, but I read in HMCS Fees document that if you are requesting judgment by default, it’s free. So you might want to check that out with the Court.

Els
elsinore is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter The Consumer Forums Replies Last Post
Fraudulent Littlewoods Account - chasing me for ££!! BerryN Debt Collection Industry 10 9th May 2008 15:07
NatWest Business Account and Flexible Business Loan Problems WormHasTurned NatWest Bank 1 16th October 2007 01:39
Partner increased overdraft limit on account without my knowledge, RBOS chasing me davids3511 Royal Bank of Scotland 7 13th April 2007 20:39
Paying to guarantee a bank account! 389shell General 2 22nd March 2007 15:15
Multiple DCA's chasing same account - CCA them all and hope one defaults? veryannoyed General 9 14th September 2006 14:16




Do your Internet search here:

The Consumer Action Group and The Bank Action Group are registered trademarks
Reclaim the Right Ltd. - reg.05783665 in the UK reg. office:- 923 Finchley Road, London, NW11 7PE

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.0.0 RC6 © 2006, Crawlability, Inc.