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    • They did reply to my defence stating it would fail and enclosed copies of NOA, DN Term letter and account statements. All copies of T&C's that could be reconstructions and the IP address on there resolves to the town where MBNA offices are, not my location
    • My defence was standard no paperwork:   1.The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 2. Paragraph 1 is noted. The Defendant has had a contractual relationship with MBNA Limited in the past. The Defendant does not recognise the reference number provided by the claimant within its particulars and has sought verification from the claimant who is yet to comply with requests for further information. 3. Paragraph 2 is denied. The Defendant maintains that a default notice was never received. The Claimant is put to strict proof to that a default notice was issued by MBNA Limited and received by the Defendant. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied. The Defendant is unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served from either the Claimant or MBNA Limited. 5. On the 02/01/2023 the Defendant requested information pertaining to this claim by way of a CCA 1974 Section 78 request. The claimant is yet to respond to this request. On the 19/05/2023 a CPR 31.14 request was sent to Kearns who is yet to respond. To date, 02/06/2023, no documentation has been received. The claimant remains in default of my section 78 request. 6. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of proof of assignment being sent/ agreement/ balance/ breach or termination requested by CPR 31.14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to: (a) show how the Defendant entered into an agreement; and (b) show and evidence the nature of breach and service of a default notice pursuant to Section 87(1) CCA1974 (c) show how the claimant has reached the amount claimed for; and (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim; 7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. 8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974. 9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.
    • Monika the first four pages of the Private parking section have at least 12 of our members who have also been caught out on this scam site. That's around one quarter of all our current complaints. Usually we might expect two current complaints for the same park within 4 pages.  So you are in good company and have done well in appealing to McDonalds in an effort to resolve the matter without having  paid such a bunch of rogues. Most people blindly pay up. Met . Starbucks and McDonalds  are well aware of the situation and seem unwilling to make it easier for motorists to avoid getting caught. For instance, instead of photographing you, if they were honest and wanted you  to continue using their services again, they would have said "Excuse me but if you are going to go to Mc donalds from here, it will cost you £100." But no they kett quiet and are now pursuing you for probably a lot more than £100 now. They also know thst  they cannot charge anything over the amount stated on the car park signs. Their claims for £160 or £170 are unlawful yet so many pay that to avoid going to Court. When the truth is that Met are unlikely to take them to Court since they know they will lose. The PCNs are issued on airport land which is covered by Byelaws so only the driver can be pursued, not the keeper. But they keep writing to you as they do not know who was driving unless you gave it away when you appealed. Even if they know you were driving they should still lose in Court for several reasons. The reason we ask you to fill out our questionnaire is to help you if MET do decide to take you to Court in the end. Each member who visited the park may well have different experiences while there which can help when filling out a Witness statement [we will help you with that if it comes to it.] if you have thrown away the original PCN  and other paperwork you obviously haven't got a jerbil or a guinea pig as their paper makes great litter boxes for them.🙂 You can send an SAR to them to get all the information Met have on you to date. Though if you have been to several sites already, you may have done that by now. In the meantime, you will be being bombarded by illiterate debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors all threatening you with ever increasing amounts as well as being hung drawn and quartered. Their letters can all be safely ignored. On the odd chance that you may get a Letter of Claim from them just come back to us and we will get you to send a snotty letter back to them so that they know you are not happy, don't care a fig for their threats and will see them off in Court if they finally have the guts to carry on. If you do have the original PCN could you please post it up, carefully removing your name. address and car registration number but including dates and times. If not just click on the SAR to take you to the form to send to Met.
    • In order for us to help you we require the following information:- [if there are more than one defendant listed - tell us] 1 defendant   Which Court have you received the claim from ? County Court Business Centre, Northampton   Name of the Claimant ? LC Asset 2 S.A R.L   Date of issue – . 28/04/23   Particulars of Claim   What is the claim for –    (1) The Claimant ('C') claims the whole of the outstanding balance due and payable under an agreement referenced xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and opened effective from xx/xx/2017. The agreement is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 ('CCA'), was signed by the Defendant ('D') and from which credit was extended to D.   (2) D failed to comply with a Default Notice served pursuant to s87 (1) CCA and by xx/xx/2022 a default was recorded.   (3) As at xx/xx/2022 the Defendant owed MBNA LTD the sum of 12,xxx.xx. By an agreement in writing the benefit of the debt has been legally assigned to C effective xx/xx/2022 and made regular upon C serving a Notice of Assignment upon D shortly thereafter.   (4) And C claims- 1. 12,xxx.xx 2. Interest pursuant to Section 69 County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from xx/01/2023 to xx/04/2023 of 2xx.xx and thereafter at a daily rate of 2.52 to date of judgement or sooner payment. Date xx/xx/2023   What is the total value of the claim? 12k   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Yes   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? N/A Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Credit Card   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After   Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Online   Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes, but amount differs slightly   Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. DP issued claim   Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Not that I recall...   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Not that I recall...   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? Yes   Why did you cease payments? Loss of employment main cause   What was the date of your last payment? Early 2021   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No   -----------------------------------
    • Hello CAG Team, I'm adding the contents of the claim to this thread, but wanted to open the thread with an urgent question: Do I have to supply a WS for a claim with a court date that states " at the hearing the court will consider allocation and, time permitting, give an early neutral evaluation of the case" ? letter is an N24 General Form of Judgement or Order, if so, then I've messed up again. Court date 25 May 2024 The letter from court does not state (like the other claims I have) that I must provide WS within 28 days.. BUT I have recently received a WS from Link for it! making me think I do need to!??
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      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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ISP's releasing personal information - re Davenport Lyons


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First before I continue with my post, here is the background to the case and how they get ISP's to cough up personal information on its customers.

 

My wife is one of those falsey accused and she there was letters goign to and throw from March last year until April, then it stopped until this week when they sent another letter now asking for £525 instead of £325 with another undetaking form attached, we had edited the last two and sent them back with no money and also this latest letter had a blank judgment document attached which is supposed to have been used by them in a successfull case, which looking at the form, seems this is just anothre rouse to get people to give into to their intimidation of innocent people.

 

Swarm of file sharers spurred UK crackdown | The Register

 

Slyck.com • View topic - legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

 

Note there are other articles and thread at these locations which cover the subject further as Davenport Lyons is still doing the same unchallenged by anyone.

 

Anyway I think now the best way to stop Davenport Lyons is to challenge the way they get the information from ISP's via a court order which is granted on information from Logistep, a swedish company, which uses methods to collect information on IP numbers etc, which has no sound metjod, i.e anyone can get an IP address and produce such evidence as they have produced. The worrying thing is because this is a civil case, innocent until proven guilty does not apply as if it went to court, its goign to be Joe Bloggs who cannot afford a solicitor taking on a legal firm who will manipulate evidence that no doubt will blind a court into thinking Davenport Lyons and Logistep have sound evidence.

 

So since ISP are realising private information how does one stop them and what laws can one use in the consumer side of things, data protection etc.

 

I have come here by the way as someone so my post on this subject in a local newsgroup and suggested I post here ina ddition to other sites I have asked this question on.

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I am afraid that I have absolutely no knowledge on this sort of stuff before, but if you just go out and buy the software, does this not stuff their case? £350 is a bit steep, but it is for loss isnt it? If you bought the game then there would be no loss.

Lula

 

Lula v Abbey - Settled

Lula v Abbey (2) - Settled

Lula v Abbey (3) - Stayed

 

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Well if one has not done as they say, why would I buy something which I do not want and which is immaterial really as the false charges are that someone in our household has been sharing something which is not the case.

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Gecko.In many respects you can draw an analogy with the registered owner of a car receiving a parking 'fine'. All you have to do is write back and say more than one person uses your computer, and you are not aware of anyone downloading this game, so unless they can identify the particular person involved, you are unable to help. If they write back saying you HAVE to say who the culprit was, reply asking where in law you are required to do this.

If you post any correspondence received on this forum, I am sure there will many people able to help you with the replies.

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  • 3 weeks later...

As posted many times, do not ignore the letters. However, using the templates on here and at penaltycharges dot co dot uk, contest the claim under CPA rules; ie gather all the evidence they claim to have against you.

 

Once you have this, you can start to mount your defence.

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  • 1 month later...

I've just got one of these letters last week, even more to cheek of it, I already owned the game in question before the date given.

 

I've had a quick loko around, wondering what to do, starting to think it may be best to contact to state this fact, and request exactly what evidence that would link to me specifically they have?

 

what is CPA referring to?, just trying to figure best approach to contact with.

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When you use P2P, (or any site on the net), your ip can be seen by those you are downloading from. If they put their game on P2P and you download it, they have your ip address. That ip address is unique to you and will tell them the ISP and the UBR that you are connected to. All they then have to do is ask the ISP who owns ip address xxx.xxx.xx.xxx, it's as simple as that.

 

I don't know how they get around the legal side of a foreign company demanding payment in a country where they have no legal jurisdiction, or how they have managed to get the ISP to give this information.

 

Are these damands coming from a UK lawyer?

 

Besides all that, how can they demand such a large amount. I could see how the record companies can make up stupid figures by assuming if you downloaded one record, you probably dowloaded dozens.

With a game, you only download one thing and surely they can only ask at most the retail price of that one game.

 

Unless this is a [problem] as you both deny ever downloading it.

 

If this was me, then I would ask my ISP if they have given this information to anyone or S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) them and get the info that way. £10 has to be better than £350.

 

I think this a hope we get someone to respond letter.

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  • 3 months later...

Hi, I too have had a letter like this.

 

We had a card come from Royal Mail, it wasn't addressed to Mr or Mrs, my mom thought it was hers and had to pay £1.66 to get the letter to find out it was addressed to me from Davenport Lyons.

 

This just adds insult to injury!

 

They are expecting £505 for something I have no knowledge of.

I'm not sure on what to do? We have a wireless network and have for a long time now, and had no knowledge of this happening, I've done all I can as far as encrypting the network is concerned but even then it's not anywhere near 100% secure.

 

Where do I stand? I can't afford to pay that sort of money.

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They cannot prove it was *you* simply by an IP address. If they tried a criminal court it would fails The Laws Test (unsufficient evidence and would be contradicted).

 

A civil case would rest on balance of probabillity, but a good solicitor would rip their case to shreds.

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I have just read the above link and there is NO requirement for you, or for anyone, to have a firewall and antivirus or to encrypt your wireless router. It is 'advisable' to have security, so their demand that documentation is supplied to prove you have it and it is set up correctly is just rubbish.

 

The amount demanded is also bunk, they will have to prove, not just guess, that this is how much having it on your pc has cost them, in other words if the game cost £40 and they want £500, they need to show that 12 people have downloaded it from you and only you.

 

If you are one of the ones who has never heard of this game and are not a game player, then you are in a better position to challenge them than someone who has, and your information could be very useful to other.

 

Also, if it is themselves who have put it into the P2P for download in the hope of catching someone ie 'had lured the accused into committing an act', then it is my belief that they have offered it for download free of charge.

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An ex workmate of mine (who I am unfortuantly no longer in contact with) had a similar issue, and it turned out to be due (we think) to his wireless internet having no security. He basicly replied that this was the case and he has now set up his wireless settings on his router properly and he got nothing more from them. (I dunno if its the same outfit... sounds like a similar thing tho!)

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You could contact your ISP, and ask why they released your data to a third party, and on what grounds. Await their reply before proceeding.

 

if it is along the lines of "company xyz /said/ you had infringed copyright [or downloaded/shared this software]" or "provided evidence that..." ask for a copy of the correspondence alleging/demonstrating this. I'm wondering on what grounds ISPs *are* releasing personal data. Would be interesting to see.

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When you use P2P, (or any site on the net), your ip can be seen by those you are downloading from. If they put their game on P2P and you download it, they have your ip address. That ip address is unique to you and will tell them the ISP and the UBR that you are connected to. All they then have to do is ask the ISP who owns ip address xxx.xxx.xx.xxx, it's as simple as that.

 

not quite as simple. You have an IP allocated by a DHCP server that gives you an IP for a set amount of time. You're IP will change over time so the company in question would need to ask who has a particular IP at a particular moment in time. And it is only unique in the sense that the actual IP is unique. Obviously a comany such as NTL will buy a finite block of IPs and each one will be assigned to different people over the period of it's life. it's absolutely essential that they isolate a particular period of time and that that period of time was the time that the IP was leased to you.

 

And surely they need to prove you are in posession of this game and indeed used it. If they put their own game on P2P and someone downloaded it is that not entrapment ? I'd love for soemone the challenge these companies ..

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I understand all that hamish but didn't go that far into is as it will just over complicate things, but you are right except for those with a static IP.

 

I put in my second post:

 

Also, if it is themselves who have put it into the P2P for download in the hope of catching someone ie 'had lured the accused into committing an act', then it is my belief that they have offered it for download free of charge.

 

I purposely did not use the word 'entrapment' as that is not a defence in English law.

It is the final part of the above that would be a defence.

 

All the things on P2P are free, there is no way of charging for it, (I suppose you could put up legal time limited software with an offer to allow it to continue for a fee), so if they put it on themselves in the hope of enticing downloads, then they are offering it free and cannot charge (extortionately) at a later date and make threats if you do not pay.

 

If there was any Spyware contained within that program offered for free on P2P then they could also be guilty under the Computer Misuse Act 1990 (c. one eight)

Edited by Conniff
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It's on today's BBC News website...

Alecto, Magaera et Tisiphone: Nemesis on Earth is come.

 

All advice and opinions given by Spiceskull are personal, and are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Dunno if its acceptable to post these links here, if not can a mod delete the post please

 

Victims of WiFi Theft Not Responsible For Illegal Uploads | TorrentFreak

 

Anti-Piracy Evidence Put in Doubt by Leecher | TorrentFreak

If in doubt, contact a qualified insured legal professional (or my wife... she knows EVERYTHING)

 

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  • 1 month later...

I've never downloaded anything in my life. They are alledging the download of Test Drive Unlimited and claiming £565.00. I contacted them and explained that if anyone did download it, it would have been a 13 year old child. I told them I was on benefits and couldn't pay the amount. They instead sent out a payment schedule which would end up costing me £665! There have been numerous arguments, tears and tantrums in this house. I can't sleep or even eat properly.

 

The computer was a gift from his dad, I got broadband when I was working and subsequently re-negotiated my telephone so I could afford it. I've got a daughter who was 3 at the time of the alledged offence, she is lovely but demands my attention all the time. I've had people telling me that I'm a bad parent for not keeping a closer watch on my son, all I can say to that is his dad installed the computer and I assumed he knew what he was doing re internet settings etc. I'm not very computer literate myself. I can't believe I am the only person to be in this position. Before this happened I was more worried about internet grooming than this stuff.

 

If they get a judgment against me then what will happen? I have no property or assets. I can't work now my daughter is at school, rather than day nursery, as there is no out of school provision in this area and there are very few jobs that are only term-time and school hours! (No I don't feel I could be a childminder). They might as well take me to court for £16,000 as £665 because either amount is out of my reach. I'm a nervous wreck.

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