Pipex Contract

[tetley75]

Hi, just a quick querry, I have been with Pipex since January and would like to move to another provider, Pipex have told me I am tied into a year long contract. However at no point did I sign any contract agreeing to this, I have asked Pipex to supply a copy of anything I may have signed agreeing to ther terms and obviously they couldn't provid it. Where do I now stand with the £120 they expect me to pay in relation to my early get out?

[Shanks]

Hi lukemannion, I think you are likely to have a bit of a battle on with this one.

You may not have physically signed any contract, in much the same way as most online transactions do not have an actual signature. But it is likely that as part of your application to receive the service, and Pipex's agreement to provide the service you will have given your details and ticked a box to state that "you understand and agree to the terms and conditions set out" etc etc or similar wording. I have taken the two quotes below from their standard T & C's

3. Term
3.1 This Agreement will commence on the Commencement Date and shall continue for a term equivalent to the subscription period paid by the Customer until the expiry of that subscription period or the Agreement is terminated in accordance with the terms hereof ("the Term") subject to the provisions of paragraph 13.1

and

"Minimum Period of Service"

(c) For customers using Pipex Mini, Midi, Start, Go, Max and Managed Business services - The minimum period of service will be twelve (12) months from the commencement date. Please note: All Customers that have not incurred a set up or joining fee and terminate services within the first twelve (12) months of service from the commencement date will be required to pay the remainder of their contract. For example a Customer who chooses Pipex Start + Anytime (£19.00 per month) and cancels their contract after 3 months will be required to pay the last 9 months of the contract at the full price. Therefore £19.00 x 9 months = £171.00.

If you can argue that the service is so bad that it does not meet the standards expected then you may have some chance, but usually they include a phrase like "we cannot guarantee speeds" and set their minimum acceptable speed so low that anything above an old dial up connection is deemed to be within reason.

Why are you wanting to change?

[Shanks]

Found another relevant quote from their t & c's

2.2 The provisions of the Application Form are binding on Pipex once Pipex confirm to the Customer in writing acceptance of the Customer's order. The Customer agrees to receive the Service and pay the fees for the Service as specified in this Agreement.

and

13.2 If a Customer wishes to end this Agreement before the end of the Minimum Period of Service, Pipex shall be entitled to charge the Customer fees which would have been payable by the Customer for the balance of the Minimum Period of Service. In addition to this Pipex shall also be entitled to charge the Customer a one off cancellation fee which will be charged at the equivalent value of any incentives that the Customer may have previously received on the basis of staying with Pipex for the Minimum Period of Service.
13.3 In addition, if a Customer using Pipex Solo, Pipex Lite, Pipex 1000 and Pipex 2000 wishes to end this Agreement before twelve (12) months have elapsed since the Commencement Date Pipex shall be entitled to charge a termination fee. For details of the current termination fee please contact the Pipex Sales department on 0845 077 2537.

Sorry I can't be more positive, but as I say a lot depends on why you want to cancel, as it may give you more of a argument against the charge

Cheers

[tetley75]

Quick update, sorry it took so long but as expected Pipex cut me off. I ended up getting a letter from their solicitors basically saying to pay up or they'll take me to court and charge more, I wrote back saying I am quite prepared to pay the amount if they can supply me with a signed agreement or a recording of the telephone call that I alledgelly verbally agreed to a years contract, if they can't then I can only assume such a contract doesn't exist and therfore neither would this debt. I also explained I had previously writtain to Pipex via recorded delivery requesting the same. I added I had not made unreasonable requests and had done my best to keep it out of the court system.

Everything has now been put on hold while I assume they search for an agreement, i'll give it a little longer and then complain to OFCOM.

[becka]

This would be a good route if the contract between you had been paperbased. However as with most broadband services you would have been sent an installation disc which you would not have been able to complete the installation if you did not tick the box. The fact that your broadband is installed means you agreed to their terms and conditions

Am not really sure what you are going to go to Ofcom with ... most broadband suppliers have an initial 12 month contract - you want out of it early you either have to pay the price or wait till the end of the contract.

If the supply of the service is poor then there are specific routes to take - none of which is to not pay and threaten with Ofcom when it doesn't look like you have any basis

[honey5]

the best way to get out of your isp contract is to override their fair use policy then they will dump you
honey x

[th3joker]

Honey hit the nail on the head.

Sign up to a news service (£6-£15p/m) and get something like sabnzbd (free) and a Newzbin account (£1.00p/m).

This will enable you to download over 1TB of data a month, Pipex will be falling over themselves to offer an early end to your contract.

The only problem you'll have then is finding an ISP who will allow you to continue downloading that sort of amount a month. You'll be hooked to news services by then.

A news service (usenet) account will give you the same access to movies, tv programs, books and music that P2P allows but it actually works. Oh and it's about 100 times faster than P2P too.

[Shanks]

th3joker, that's posibly one way but be careful, you could end up with just a throttled service. So you are no nearer the end of your contract but have a much slower connection speed for your trouble. This would leave you even worse off.

from thinkbroadband.com ...

Also the management used, appears to be a fairly straightforward throttle of the lines ability to download data, and is across the board, rather than for specific protocols or ports. In some cases people are seeing connections go from working at 200KB/sec to just 20KB/sec when the management is in place.

lukemannion, I'm not saying don't - just be wary

[missy2006]

If you signed up to pipex you automatically are locked into a 12 month contract there is nothing you can say to get out of it, bar do what Honey says and hammer the amount you d/l.

Believe me they will offer you your MAC code straight away i just wished i did what Honey suggested.

[th3joker]

Luke,

I believe Pipex changed either their FUP or T&C's in February this year, in which case you are allowed to leave on the basis that they changed their contractual obligation after you had agreed to the contract.

I am not sure exactly when in February it was and they may have attached a clause to it stating that you can indeed end the 12 month term early, but you would need to do so within a 30 day period.

It may merit a bit of digging around to find the information, I will certainly look through my Pipex correspondence to see if I can find it.

All the best,

Adrian

[th3joker]

Hi Luke,

I was right they did and here it is:

Fair Use Policy (FUP) 14/02/07

The Pipex Fair Use Policy (FUP) has been implemented so that we can deliver a broadband service that is fast and reliable to all our customers.
We monitor the performance of our network and may restrict the amount of bandwidth available to very heavy users during busy periods to ensure that the majority of the customer base have a good experience. This applies to all customers using our Pipex broadband services including unlimited broadband.
In addition we will contact customers who frequently use excessive bandwidth to the detriment of others to advise them of this, ask them to change their behaviour and offer them alternative courses of action. In some cases if their usage remains high we will suspend or close their account. This will enable us to offer a fair service to the rest of the customer base.
Why have a Fair Use Policy?
Some customers usage is in excess of that expected from normal home use and this impacts on the service level to others particularly at busy times. This may be due to high use of file sharing software or heavy downloads of music and films.
Will I be affected by the Fair Use Policy?
If you don't use file sharing software or download large files from the Internet it's unlikely you'll ever be affected by our policy. If you do, all we request is that you do so with consideration for other customers sharing the Pipex network, for instance, downloading outside peak hours.
What happens if my use is very high?
If your broadband usage is occasionally very high, we're unlikely to be concerned. However, if your usage is frequently high and impacts our network, and the experience of other customers, in a negative way then we will get in touch with you to ask you to change your behaviour.
If your usage remained high and didn’t change, or contravened the Acceptable Use Policy (AUP), we may take further action and may suspend your service and close the account. We want to avoid this happening and ask for your support in ensuring a good service for all Pipex customers.
How can I manage my usage more efficiently?
If you intend to use your broadband connection for downloading large files we suggest you try and do this outside of peak hours.
For previous updates regarding Traffic Management Progress and High Traffic Usage in relation to our updated FUP please click the following links:
High Traffic Usage Update (1 July 2005)
Traffic Management Progress Update (July 2005)

If you have any questions or concerns regarding this statement you can contact us by e-mailing: customerservices@pipex.ne t



I think the key was the date, I cancelled mine in March just after receiving the letter stating that the FUP was changing. I stated that since the FUP and therefore contract and service had changed I was no longer tied to the original contract because of this.

They wrote to me just after the FUP had been put in place (early March) and said that I was in breach of their FUP and offered me the option of reducing usage or taking a MAC and leaving. I took the MAC, though I had terrible problems for a year afterwards with them trying to continue to take money.



If they do let you out of the contract, cancel the direct debit immediately. They tried to debit the remaining 10 months in one go the following day after having agreeing not to do this.

[simountain1]

you can still request a mac code and pay off Pipex as you can afford.
They have to by law give you a MAC code if you request it

[grizzleguts]

Hi, the biggest problem with ISP's is that, no terms and conditions are actually supplied, and the only time you get to find out there are terms and conditions, is when you phone up to complain, and they state "the terms and conditions are on our web site".
The fact that they send you a modem etc, means they have had ample opportunity to supply them, which of course they do not.
Having asked for them to send you a copy of the agreement (hopefully via recorded mail), and they refuse, they are infact in breech of the CCA.
If taken to court, you would find that, the standard form contract, that was verbally agreed, without the T&C's, would be laughed out of the court. especially, as you would have proof you have asked for them, and if they have cut off your internet connection, How are you suppossed to view them?
Also with holding your Mac code would be basically making you Unemployed if you needed the internet for work, which with a half decent lawyer, would be able to get a settlement, before the court stage, or get you some form of compensation for financial and personel distress.