Child Tax Credit Overpayments

[sues35]

Found this....if your struggling to pay back OP from CTC then have a look at this, it may be of some help

BBC NEWS | Business | Dealing with tax credit overpayments

[meagain]

Just in case anyone is considering making an appeal, some things to remember:

For your appeal to be successful, short of trying to shame them into giving you the money by threatening the use of MPs and press (those with a legitimiate case should stay in touch), the general rule is that you won't have to pay it back or lose entitlement in future years if you can demonstrate that you had "good reason to believe the payments were correct". This means you have exercised due diligence, and can prove it.

The reason they say "good reason" is that they do not expect you to know what you were entitled to, only to go to reasonable lengths before satisfying yourself that what they tell you is correct. Put simply, don't blindly assume everything is correct. They do not know how much to assess, you have to tell them. Compliance section runs checks against P14s (if your company uses standard multi-parts, your P60 comes off the back of the P14), but there are various deductions that you might be entitled to that the P14 wouldn't tell them about.

Note that it is not enough to simply say "We had good reason to believe payments were correct". You have to be able to demonstrate this. It is not a reasonable to assume the government will always get things right - there is a human element involved, and humans are prone to failure.

Things that will count towards "good reason" are (not exhaustive):

• You checked all the award notices, and found no errors in the circumstances - therefore you assumed the calculated figure was correct (this is a reasonable assumption to make).
• You checked the notices, found errors, and reported them promptly (responsibility of the sender ends with Royal Mail, so proof of posting should do).
• You didn't receive your renewal paperwork, called/wrote to HMRC and were told you didn't need to file any.

If you have corresponded with HMRC frequently and can produce this, then you can imply that had their been an error, it would have been picked up on, or that you have pointed out their mistakes more than once. If you have done at least the above, your appeal should succeed without issue.

The following by themselves will typically not count towards "good reason":

• You assumed that the figures you were told were correct without checking your circumstances on your notice.
• Your payments changed, you queried it on the phone, were told it was correct, and left it at that.
• You "didn't receive" the relevant award notice. (as before, it's their responsibility to send it, not to ensure it is received)
• You were told there was a system error affecting your claim (you can still appeal on other grounds - see below)
• You posted your renewal paperwork close to the deadline (you will have had anything up to 5-6 months to return it)
• You didn't receive your renewal paperwork, and assumed you didn't need any.

Several of the above will actually make your appeal less likely to succeed, as they may portray you as careless.

Note that if you are told that there is a system error preventing them from maintaining your claim correctly, you do not have good reason to believe payments are correct (as you have been told that they are not). In these cases, you will be instead be appealing the overpayment on the grounds of official error. In most cases of system errors, there will be notes on your record from someone who has tried to correct it and failed - I would imagine they would be taken into account without the need for you to issue a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to see them first.

Remember, the system may be broken, but you have to at least make an effort to work around it.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[MICHFERGIE]

I Need help on this one, I have jsut received a letter fronm the tax credits this goes back to 2000/2001, when my son was at school my husband was on Job seekers Allowance at this time we contacted them when he started work.

They are saying that on there screen it says that my husband was working full-time and claiming job-seekers allowance I have told them this is untrue this is not on any award that I had seen, I cannot find the award and they have not sent this to me, I have told them that the above is against the law and I am a honest trustworthy person, I am at my wits end what do I do I have appealed twice now and they are not having any of it I have told them over and over again.

The amount is £6500 what do i do who can i speak to this is urgent advice

[Shellyo1o]

Urggg I hate the tax credit people, they have messed me up more times than I can count in the last 2 years.

Michfergie - if you get a copy of your husbands P60 for tax year 2000/01 it will have his earnings for the year on. This should be proof of his earnings for that year and you can foward a copy to the tax credit office.

I hope you get yours sorted, mine is just starting to get messy AGAIN!

[MICHFERGIE]

Shellyo1
My husband does not have a P60 he is self employed by himseld he does not pay tax as he does not earn alot.
Thanks

[MICHFERGIE]

Sory misread email the year is 2003/2004 and he was self employed so does not have a P60 but how would this help

[countrybake]

usefull info bump

[therafalution]

Just a general point on HMRC, they have a section for change of circumstances, they phone people up and confirm addresses, child care costs, anything which might affect a claim. It is really important if you change anything that might affect your claim to tell them. Claims can be affected and overpayments made because someone hasn't told them of a change in circumstances. As an ex-employee I know they do make mistakes and the training is sub-standard, but for the system to work it does need information to flow both ways. Glad i got out.

[bsutherland]

do you have a set time limit 2 do this in me and my husband have been over payed the last 3 years. this year should be fine hopefully.

[Ros2710]

Do you mean how long you've got to pay it back?

If you're continuing to be eligible to tax credits, they will take it out of next years credits ie they will be reduced

If you can't manage when they do this you can always phone them and claim harship, and ask for the amount being collected to be reduced (can't guarantee they will do this - depends on your circs)

If you hae no further entitlement to tax crdits and have to pay it back directly, they send you a demand which gives you details. There is a number of the bottom of this you can call.

If you can't pay , you can either ring them or go into yur local tax enquiry centre and ask for an 'arrangement to pay'.
They should the put you in touch with the Receivables side of the Department who can arrange for and interview and you agree a payment plan between you.

I used to work or the Tax Enquiry centre myself and we saw lots of messed up claims.

[bsutherland]

sorry should have said how long do you have to say you think an overpayment was not your fault.

[Ros2710]

this is from their appeals leaflet.

Is there a time limit?

Yes. You have 30 days from the date of the notice to make your appeal in writing. After that the notice is normally final and cannot be changed.
Can the time limit be extended?

Yes, but only if you can satisfy us that there were special reasons for the delay, and that you will raise the matter as soon as possible.
If we are not satisfied with your explanation then a legally qualified panel member at the Appeals Service will consider your application. They will look at your reasons for appealing late and decide whether to accept your appeal. Their decision is final.
We will not accept any appeal more than 13 months after the date on your notice under any circumstances.
Website is www.hmrc/gov/uk

Go into the site and click tax credits. I found his on the leaflets link. You could also look at a COP 26 which is a booklet explainin what hapens when tax credits are overpaid.
Good luck!!

[catsue22]

Hi

Regarding Tax Credit Overpayments, there is no right of appeal, so any appeal against it will be rejected for that very reason. It's a bit like going into Curry's and complaining because the loaf of bread you bought at Tesco wasn't fresh. No-one is disputing that it wasn't fresh, but you have to follow the correct process to get your money back ie go to Tesco's. I hope that doesn't sound too patronising, but there is a lot of confusion over this process, and I find that's a good way to remember it. You need to dispute the overpayment with a COP26. You can ring the helpline to get one.

You need to detail as accurately as you can why you think you should not pay back the money. Remember, when you do this that HMRC contact centres have full records of all calls, which are also recorded. They will listen to every one if necessary. For example it is no use stating that on every call you made in 2004 you gave correct P60 information if it's not true. It can easily be checked.

However....HMRC, although getting much much better, has made mistakes in the past and if you genuinely feel that you should not repay an overpayment as you did everything you were expected to, and any overpayment was not your fault, then of course you must dispute it. It is a relatively painless process and each case is judged on it's own merits.

Get a COP26 - and good luck


.

[fairclaire]

There is a right of appeal against tax credit overpayments. I have succesfully appealed myself...twice. I won both times

I was overpaid on 2 successive years...both times to the tune of nearly £1000.

I admit my cicumstances were messy...living with partner/partner got a job/partner lost his job/relationship broke up/i got promoted and got a payrise/change in childcare costs. There were alot of changes to my circs but I kept HRMC updated to every single one of them.

The overpayments were their fault in that they failed to act on my info regarding changed circumstances. Requesting a Subject Access Request from them gave me all the info I needed (i.e reports of all the phonecalls I'd made were in there so there was no denying I'd informed them of changes)

My argument was that they'd failed to adjust my tax credits correctly after being informed of changes in circumstances. When asked why I did not know that I was being overpaid my reply was that it was not my job to calculate my own entitlement as they have trained staff to do this. I trusted that the awards notices I was sent out were correct and calculated properly by those trained staff.

Beware of the staff at tax credits...they are very poorly trained and you will never get the same answer twice from the call centre. Your answer will usually be that you earned more than they thought you would...therefore you have been overpaid.

Don't accept this!! if you keep them informed of your circumstances it is up to them to adjust your award. There can be small discrepancies and that's acceptable. But if a huge overpayment occurs due to no fault of your own then appeal. Show that they are incompetent and wrong.

Get a Subject Access Request. Tax credits are useless at most things but their SARs are pretty comrehensive with details of all telephone calls etc. If you can prove from your Subject Access Request that you kept them informed then you are most of the way to winning the argument.

It can be a long process. My first appeal was against a 2003 award and has only just been settled. my appeal against 2004 award has been succesful too...i've been told by telephone but am awaiting the official letter.

If you don't inform them of changes they will catch up with you eventually. But if you haven't done wrong then dig your heels in and keep going. Their appeals process is pretty painless...just be armed with proof and you will get there eventually.

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	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[catsue22]

I think we are just talking about terminology here. There is no right of appeal against an overpayment - you must dispute it.

You can appeal against awards though, if you feel they have been calulated incorrectly - that is a different matter.

You might be able to guess who I work for. Please don't appeal an overpayment. Your appeal will be either rejected, or your dispute will be delayed while the right process is followed. Please make sure you dispute any overpayments using a COP26.

If you follow the right process in the first place, you are more likely to get a good result. Mistakes have been made in the past, and where you have been paid too much through no fault of your own, and if that is the case you absolutely must dispute this. As the posting before me states, she was able to prove that, and was successful in not having to pay back her overpayment.

There is no time limit when disputing an overpayment( there is a time limit with appeals), but you should do it as soon as you are aware that you have been overpaid for a certain tax year.

But, please, if you are going to dispute an overpayment get a COP26 and follow the right process.

Once again - good luck

[di0430]

Hi
We had our Child Tax Credits stopped after April 2006 and not had a penny from them since, this is due to overpayments made.

The year 2004/2005 as i do not work as i have a son with special needs, my hubbys earnings for that year was just over £18k, so we were receiving approx £58 a week of CTC, we also have another son too.

My hubbys earnings had risen for the year 2005/2006 (not due to a pay rise-but due to the working hours changing from a 40 hr a week to 12 hour shifts), but were changing every few weeks.

I had informed CTC of this and all they said was wait for the yearly annual forms to come through as this will be sorted out then.
Anyhow when my hubby received his yearly p60 the wages for the year was approx £24K, but since then the hours had gone down again !!

We had sent off the form, and the next few weeks we were informed that due to the overpayments, we will not get anything until April 2007 in which then they will take off the overpayments then.

If they had taken note of when we informed them of the changes then this could of been avoided, but we both informed them only to be told to wait for the forms !!

In the meantime my son has been finally diagnosed with special needs, with mild autism and learning difficulties, and i was advised of putting in a claim for Disability Living Allowance (DLA), as he has to have 24/7 supervision even though he is gone 12 yrs old, as he will not go with anyone else this is full time for me.
Due to this I have been told that i need to contact CTC as we would be entitled to extra for my son for having special needs.

I did contact CTC, and have informed them of my hubbys wages being lower this year, approx £6K lower, and said that i am awaiting a decision too from DLA which can take a few weeks yet.
So now before they do anything i have to wait for the decision.
My older son who is 18 is in full time further education in which they are also aware of this, but even his Education maintainance allowance went from £30 down to £20 a week. So we have all lost big time really. Especially with not having a penny from CTC since last May 2006 as we assumed we would at least get something and thought it was approx £50k or more not to qualify.

Will be very grateful to hear from anyone that has been in more or less the same situation.

Many thanks.
Di

[mr k frog]

Hello Di,

afraid I have no pearls of wisdom on the WFTC front. But did you know you can get Carers Allowance? My son has diabetes and we get DLA, when you get it, apply for Carers Allowance it is £187 a month.

In order to qualify you have to look after your son for 35 hours a week and not be earning more than £86 a week (Roundabout that amount)

If you get no joy with DLA you must appeal.

Our WFTC entitlement went up by £1000 because of the disability element.

Good luck.

[di0430]

Hi
Many thanks for your feedback........I am most grateful indeed.
Just waiting for a decision from the DLA then I will apply for carer's-thank you. Do we have to have a certain rate for me to qualify for Carer's ?
I know regarding the Working tax credits we are not eligible for it due to my husband's salary being over the limit, but Child tax credit i think there is a higher limit to be eligible, not too certain but i think it may be something like £50K maybe less ??
I do find this system they use now so confusing and much rathered the older way, as now we get nothing until April 07 when they will deduct the overpayments from last year.

Again i am so grateful for your feedback and will of course apply for Carer's allowance as soon as we get the decision we need.

I will keep you informed.
Di xx

[mr k frog]

Hi, just looked up my stuff. The number for Carers Allowance is : 01772899515. Department for Work and Pensions

you have to get DLA awarded for personal care, and I think it has to be at the middle or higher rate. Did you know it can be backdated, also they will only award DLA 3 months post diagnosis. You can send the claim in before then, but the money will start after those 3 months.

Sorry when I said WFTC, I meant CTC. Our income is about 22,000 and it added around £1000 to our award.

If you get CA you should declare it to CTC as it is a taxable income.

Will let you know if I think of anything else. DLA, like most things, have their own peculiar rules and they look for certain things on a claim form.

As for CTC/WFTC I too find it confusing. They always seem to overpay us. We are constantly paying back overpayments. Another thing about getting DLA, it then means any CTC overpayment can only be reclaimed by reducing your award by 25%. What I mean is that now you have had payments stopped completely to reclaim the money. If you get DLA they can only reduce the payment by 25%, so you won't be paying so much back in a big lump. Although it does take longer to pay back.

Good luck,
Marie

[di0430]

Hi Marie,

Thank you again for your feedback.
This is interesting.
I am not any good at working these issues out regarding the CTC etc, but i am so glad you have informed me of this.

Thank you for the contact number for Carer's too, i will keep it handy.

Will get back to you on the outcome of the DLA, not sure when i will hear from them though............the claim will be going from 22 Dec 2006, and was returned in good time before the deadline of Feb 2007.
They sent a letter back over a week ago to inform me that they cannot give the decision yet as they are just waiting for reports from my son's consultant and the school........yet i had letters of support from those stated and sent them with the claim form...........so not sure if its just their procedures or perhaps there wasn't enough info given.
Will let you know the outcome.

Thanks again. You have been very helpful and this information/advice is much appreciated.
Di xx