Child Tax Credit Overpayments - Page 5

nannamoon1 · 30th June 2007, 16:52

shaniannie

actually I have legal protection on my house Insurance...LOL I am going to give them a ring and see if I am covered for this....If I am I am going to take them to court........I am not scared just annoyed that WFTC/IR can perform like this.....perhaps if I get to court then they will wake up and look at peoples disputes properly.....

What do you think?

shaniannie · 30th June 2007, 16:57

It could be one way I suppose... But although I don't know the legal ins and outs of the court system etc (maybe someone else here does?) from what I've read, the judge could take a dim view of you as you haven't followed the correct procedures set in place (ie adjudicator, ombudsman)... I honestly don't know... Would your insurance cover you for a consultation with a solicitor to discuss it?

nannamoon1 · 30th June 2007, 17:03

shaniannie

If my Insurance legal protection cover this.........then there would be no harm in getting legal advice, my guess that if I was covered and I did attempt to take them to court, i wonder how quick they would look at the case throughly.

I will give my insurance company a ring on Monday and see if I am covered first...I will of course let you know.......maybe you have to go through the channels first as you say Adjudicator, then Ombudsman......worth a go though.

hello1000 · 30th June 2007, 17:26

I've given up with the tax credit people....They have now informed me that because you did not return your annual declaration we will continue to recover the over payment... I am going to do an access request on the details they have.. as the form was sent when I was not living with my partner (and they were notified by phone and writing) and see who they wrote to (and I know it wasn't me!!)

shaniannie · 30th June 2007, 17:29

Good luck with the ins co and trying to get some sense out of the mess the TC have created nannamoon1! Please do let us know, it'll be interesting to know whether you can go your own route or if you have to follow theirs which takes SO long (by which time you've probably repaid the overpayment anyway!)

nannamoon1 · 1st July 2007, 08:00

shaniannie

I am going to send the Subject Access Request, can anyone give me a hand as to what to ask for, as I do not want to miss anything...

thanks

shaniannie · 1st July 2007, 09:51

I'm not entirely sure if this one would work for you, I've never written an S.A.R before....

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...t-subject.html

This is a link to a post with the link to the CAG S.A.R generator, I hope this helps!

nannamoon1 · 1st July 2007, 19:03

shaniannie

Thanks for the link, I have sent quite a few Subject Access Request before, but really wanted help with the wording as I do not want to miss anything out.

Maybe someone will come along that will be able to give me a hand.

Watch this space LOL

Clare1981 · 14th August 2007, 19:06

Okay... this maybe long... Im sorry if it is, ill try and keep it short but feel free to ask questions!!

The tax credits are telling me that I owe them £4000!!! Apparently in 04 - 05 we only gave an estimate of earnings, apparently that was not allowed so they want everything they gave us that year back.... they also say that for last year and the year before we didnt sign a decleration so they want all that back too.... I dont get it?? I dont remember any declerations?? All I remember is a form saying if any of these circumstances have changed please let us know... do people get declarations every year?? Im so confused... I have to appeal and soon but I dont know where to start, we have moved house and lost all P60 although I have a few of my husbands... 04 - 05 I was self employed so I possibly did give an estimate but not sure about hubby who wasnt s/e... Im just so upset and confused, I have no idea where to start with the whole process... the situation at the mo is....

Two kids, two working parents... I work part time and the youngest child's nursery fees come out of my earnings (in theroy) So I earn £500, nuresery fees are £389 a month... now with no tax credit for 2 months I have been working for about £30 a week.. less than £2's an hour :o( What is the point?? Also I am pregnant, was planning to go back to work with help from tax credit to pay for both sets of nursery fees...... my theory is if I owe them £4000 they are not going to give me a penny until thats paid back which willl probably mean no tax credit for 2 years or more.... how will we ever survive?? This is £280 less each month that we were getting and we are finding it hard to adjust...

Sorry I knew this would be long... any ideas on a letter?? What to put in it etc, how to word it, how to get a good response!!!

Thanks in advance xxx

campaigner · 18th August 2007, 09:40

Do people know about us?

Tax Credit Casualties (soon to be a Charity!)

[EDIT]
And here's own own dedicated FORUM:
[EDIT]
Look forward to meeting some of you soon!

go for it · 18th August 2007, 23:14

surely if you had nt signed the decleration they should have noticed it at the time and sent it back for u to sign and not let u have any money to u did ?

splashin · 20th August 2007, 22:08

Hello Clare
Sorry for the delay replying to your thread, but better late than never. Firstly you must appeal to tax credits, you can do this by requesting a cop26 this will give you extra time to prepare your case.
Okay, so what happens then is you must find out your earnings for 03/04 - 04/05 - 05/06 - 06/07 and estimated incomes for 07/08 for both yourself and hubby, you can do this by contacting your local tax office or if you have been with same emloyer for years they will have yearly figures of earnings. When you were self employed did you submit a end of year tax statement to the Inland Revenue? Don't worry if you never, it is just that I need you to tell me the honest truth so I can help you out of this. I understand that these things i'm asking you to tell me are very personal and you may not want to display your personal circs for everyone to view, so I can give you my email address were you can send me the details i need. The basic questions are:
What year do they say you were overpaid?
When tax credits (Apr2003) started how old were your children?
Is anyone in the household disabled?
Has you or your partner ever been paid tax credits with your wages/salary?
Has someone always worked 30hrs+ a week in the household?
I know that the main issue for you would be the income details and getting hold of them, just remember though it doesn't have to be exact, if you can remember what your hourly rate was etc, would give us basic idea of annual household income.
With regards to Declaration's, well this is a yearly notice sent to both you and also another notice to your partner, each have same details, but address to each person. If the declaration wasn't signed there are tons of reasons why this might not of happened, perhaps it was sent to your old address, you may have made a telephone call to the office with your income details, which I was always lead to believe that was just as good as a signature, because all the calls are recorded. So I know it seems there is no wasy out at present but from my experience with tax credits, they can be so very very wrong, if you can give me as much info as possible i will be able to tell you what your entitlement should be for each year. My email address is splashin_suze@hotmail.com
Regards
Splashin

angelone · 30th August 2007, 10:00

Hi
I wondered if any one could help.
I recieved a phone call from HMRC stating that i owed family tax credits £3500 on the 13/04/07. This was the first that i had heard about it and a threat to take me to court was mentioned if i did not sort this out. The overpayments are for Tax year 2003-2004 of paying cheques and also pay ments into my bank ( double payments ). Tax year 2004-2005 of not filling in a renewal pack.
I instantly phoned the help line and asked them were the letters where sent and they had no information on this on their computor. I was told to disput the overpayment by filling in a COP26 form, as there were two repayments due i was told to fill in two of these forms in which they would send me.
On the 30/4/07 i recieved one of these forms, so i rang them up stating this and that i would also like a break down of why they thought i had overpaid, the reasons of this, how much for each year and also the address of where they had sent any letters.
The thing is in August 2003 i left my job and went to Australia for a year, with my children. I informed the Tax office to let them know this (before i went) and was told they would sort it out their end and i also wrote to them a letter of address in where to send any mail.
After numerous phone calls as i did not recieve any information from them, i at last got a letter on the 20/08/07.
In this it states that from 07 March 2003 to 07 march 2003 they overpaid me with cheques and payments into my bank. I can not see how i could owe them so much money in one day. I assume this is a typo error, but have they shot themselves in the foot by writing this????
Also for 2004-2005 they state that i did not fill in a renewal pack and i will have to pay back from April 2004.
This again does not tell me where they sent the pack and also it does not state how much i owe, as the Tax credits stopped in Setember 2004.
Is there any one on this forum that can advise me on what to do!!

chaplinsbabe · 30th August 2007, 10:47

Hi there,

Well I had the same sort of problems with Tax Credits. Filled out numerous copies of their claim form thing only for them to say that it was all my fault and thats why we owed them £11000!!!! (over just 2 years). Anyway, sent off for all the info they have on me and my partner only to discover what they held on their computers was different to what they had sent me on award notices (on several occassions). Also, that for these 2 years the amount we were supposedly overpaid was virtually the same (different by about £4). They then sent the recordings of calls they had and there are a lot of these missing - eg the ones where they have told us things they shouldn't have (we had trouble when claiming last yeae and I got my local MP involved and a lot of these calls are missing - I had sent him a letter with all dates etc). So I challenged them on where the rest of the calls were and saying that I would not pay as there was obviously information missing - info I think could hold the key to the fact that these overpayments are their fault.

Yesterday I had a letter from HMRC saying that there had been several serious administrative errors made when calculating peoples tax credits awards for the years 2003/2004 and 2004/2005 and that mine was one that was being re-investigated. Just have to wait now to see what they say when they write to me again but if they still say I owe the money I will keep challenging them

campaigner · 30th August 2007, 12:20

Then it sounds as if you need to see this, sent by a Tax Credit Casualties colleague (and friend):

she has had:
<<a call from Madeline [EDIT] from the Shadow Chancellor's office (George Osbourne). She said the government/HMRC can only claim overpayments back if they are asked for in the year following the overpayment. Leaving it any longer and then asking is illegal. She wants us to provide her with cases where people are happy for their names to be given to the media and the repayment has been requested more than a year after the overpayment. She has one case, an *********** who was overpaid in 2003 and received the demand to repay in 2006. Do we have any more? >>
I’ve heard that cases can be sent by fax to:
[EDIT]
If not, please send to: c/o Madeleine Karlsson, Office of George Osborne MP
House of Commons, London SW1A 0AA
Madeleine writes, ‘I only have until tomorrow to find cases’ so let’s get in quick.

GOOD LUCK ALL! I've sent my papers off...

chaplinsbabe · 30th August 2007, 13:29

sorry so the government are saying that these overpayments cant be claimed if outside of the year the claim was for. I didn't start receiving actual demands until 2005 and this was for the 2003/2004 claim. They had often said you have been overpaid and we will claim money back from your new award and they never did

angelone · 30th August 2007, 14:07

That is a big help..I will write to HRMC and quote this and see how they respond. They are the ones that made the mistakes in the first place..i can not see how they can all of a sudden be able to claim for so far back. They must realise that most people do not keep paper work form those dates and are playing on this.
I feel that they bully people into paying them in hope most of use will just cave in and except that they are right.

splashin · 30th August 2007, 17:41

The following questions may enable me to give you some light on where these overpayments came from. Throughout the life of the Tax Credit System, the computer software has turned up many different problems, which were only discovered by HMRC a long time after these faults occured. Could the system be at fault?

1. When you first claimed for tax credits, how did you apply?
(Internet, Own Paper Application, Telephone, Via DSS.)

2. What month and year was this?

3. What were your circumstances?
a) Number of babies under 1yr, children & adults in household,
b) Anyone disabled?
c) Anybody working? If yes, then how many hours?
d) What was income for tax year 2002-2003?
e) Were you ever paid via your employer?

4. Throughout the tax years did your circumstances change at all?
e.g. new babies, change of job, hours worked or income level, disability awarded, benefits claimed, breakup with partner etc.

5. If you are being pursued about an overpayment, ask yourself have I received these amounts both in my bank and also as a giro cheque. Tax credits only sent out a limited number of giro cheques in tax year 2003-2004, all off the system (manually). These amounts were then added onto claims, which were on the system around 18 months later.

6. Have you had any problems or did you know of any problems, with your claim, which is held on the tax credit system prior to them notifying you of the overpayment?

Try to think about each year one by one, April to April, what happened? What were your circumstances? Hopefully I will be able to suggest a reason for the error occurring, resulting in you being overpaid. Fingers Crossed.
Splashin
Useful Link: http://www.taxcreditoverpayment. pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

angelone · 30th August 2007, 18:30

Hi Splashin
Some answers to your questions
1. As far as i can remember i phoned the Tax credit up as i had split from my husband.
2. This would have been poss Dec 2002/Jan 2003 maybe earlier as i split from my husband in Sept 2002.
3.I was a single mum working 38 hours. 3 children ages 15,13 and 12 years. I think my income tax was 475(around that). I was never paid via my employer.
4.I left my job and went with two of my youngest children for a year in Australia (16 months to be exact). In which i phoned and wrote telling them my circumstances and leaving a change of address.
5. I was firstly paid by giro as they could not seem to get my money into my bank account to start and most of them were back payments. Then they started paying through my bank.
The letter i recently recieved off them said they had over paid me from 07 March 2003 to 07 march 2003. Which is 1 day.
6. They said that i didnt fill in a renewal pack for 2004/2005 and when questioned where they had sent it, i was told that they had no addresses on their computor to where it was sent. I know for a fact that i did not recieve this. My payments ended in Sep 2004.

splashin · 1st September 2007, 23:14

Hi Angelone
Thanks for your answers, I have a few pointers firstly then a couple more questions to ask.
Tax Credits did not begin until April 6th 2003; if you were getting a similar benefit before this date then you would have been getting Working Family Credit. If this were the scenario, then you should have automatically been transferred from the WFC computer system to the WFTC computer system. In most cases this did not happen.
Claiming for tax credits could only be done via the internet, paper application or transferred from a DSS computer system. You were eligible to apply prior to the start date 06-04-03, some people did this. These application details were held on a different system because the Tax Credit Computer could not begin operating until 06-04-03. These details were supposed to be transferred to Tax Credit systems after the start date, but this never happened because the TC's super duper pooper system couldn't process the information recvd from the other computer. It had never been told to work that way. It was only told to process scanned information (application form), internet applications and DSS transferred applications.
You say that you left for Australia, for 16 months, were payments still being rcvd by you? What was your income (salary) for 2003/2004?
Thanks for your reply
Splashin

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