Child Tax Credit Overpayments

[Mushymoo26]

Hi

I am in the process of setting up an online petition to No.10 with regards to the way overpayments are calculated and dealt with. I need at least 100 signatures for them to take this seriously. My story is much similar to most of yours. My income went down in Nov 05, I told the tax credit office, but have just found out that who ever entered it, did do incorrectly. They should havejust recalculated from Nov, but instead changed the whole tax year. I am in process of telling them by appealling aginst this as I am now left with an overpayment of nearly £2500.00. I find the way that its calculated very daunting and how are we meant to know what we are entitled to, to check that the notices are correct. As I work for a large freight forwarders and deal with alot of customs forms of on a day to day basis, it seems this one is just baffling and their computer system needs looking into. I also feel that the staff could be better trained. I will post url as soon as i know it for the petition and would be grateful if anyone who has experienced overpayments due to the tax credit office being useless could sign it.

[di0430]

Hi
I will be very happy to sign !
If you want me to i will pass it on too, like you said to do this there has to be over 100 signatures.
I'm in !
Something has to be done about this-i totally agree with everything you said.

Get back to me as soon as your ready-thanks.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Di xx

[Mushymoo26]

That would be a great help, thanks.

As soon as I have the URL I will post it.

[mila]

Count me in as well, ill be happy to sign.

I am currently fighting them off, they want £4400 of us and I know they are wrong in their calculations

mila

[lnmrobinson]

Hi all,
I will be more than happy to sign the petition.
I received a letter the other day saying there were sending baliffs round to me for £1250. This was the first I'd heard about it! When I phoned they told me what period it was for, it was actually my ex hubby who was claiming in that period as we were separated, I had nothing to do with it, I wasn't even aware that he claimed anything, although they tell me it was a joint claim between me & my hubby! I had to tell them several times I wasn't even there, I didn't know anything about it! The woman then replied, "I understand what you're saying but you still have to pay it back". I told her I was refusing to pay due to the circumstances and asked her what do I do next, she casually said "dispute it", I replied saying that was the purpose of the telephone call! She then agreed to send me a dispute pack, but she has said that I have to give evidence that I told them about the separation, she is saying they have no record of anything, obviously I did tell them as they stopped paying into my bank account straight away.
I also asked that in a joint claim, as she said it was, do they need both signatures on the claim form, she said yes and I was able to tell her that my signature wouldn't be on any claim for that period, for some reason, she ignored that response and changed the subject!

I was wondering, has anyone got any ideas how I can send evidence proving that I didn't claim. I haven't got any paperwork, as I left it all with my ex. The only thing I have are bank statements to show when I changed address and when they stopped paying into my account. Do you think they will accept that as proof that I wasn't there?

Any help would be appreciated.
Lisa.

	Record your calls Follow this link to read the review of the Truecall telephone recorder and call manager. This is the Rolls Royce of call recorders. It's a bit pricey but if you buy it with our special offer you will get it at cost: about 20% discount. How much do we make on the deal? - Nothing at all. You can also buy cheaper devices from Maplins. Truecall is the best - but the important thing is to record your calls.

[meagain]

You can't send evidence that you didn't claim (a problem with logic more than anything else). Demand (in writing) that they send evidence that you claimed for the period concerned, and then show whatever comes back to be incorrect. If they do not comply, invoke the Data Protection Act and send a request to the Data Protection Unit in Longbenton (the address will be in the Register of Data Controllers at the Information Commissioners Office website, or somewhere on the HMRC website - failing both of those, you can always ask them for the address on the phone).

[Karnevil]

Hi

Need some help if possible.

We had a tax credit overpayment 18 months ago.

HAvent heard anything from them at all...no letters nothing.

Today phone call, have 24 hours to make an arrangement to pay back and they will only accept payment over 12 months.

They want £166 a month.

My current tax credits award is £51.30 a week.

We live off that amount because OH's salary pays mortgage, council tax, utilities (just) plus £178 goes to CCCS for debt repayments. I have a financial budget plan from cccs - could i submit this to tax credits people too? or are they different to DCAs/Banks ?


Does anyone know, before I phone them back what I can do re repaying the money. I accept I owe it.

Thankyou.

	Record your calls Follow this link to read the review of the Truecall telephone recorder and call manager. This is the Rolls Royce of call recorders. It's a bit pricey but if you buy it with our special offer you will get it at cost: about 20% discount. How much do we make on the deal? - Nothing at all. You can also buy cheaper devices from Maplins. Truecall is the best - but the important thing is to record your calls.

[Mushymoo26]

You can request more time to pay it. Call them and explain that the payment terms they have requested will cause you hardship. I would also point out to them, that you have recd no letter or anything regarding the overpayment and feel that they are being unreasonable to make that sort of demand in the time frame. If you say it will cause hardship then they may be willing to either write some off or extend the period you pay it back. Hope it goes well.

	Hardship By and large the "harship" provision in the FSA waiver is a myth which is intended to create a sense that the banking industry is sufficiently well-intentioned to act fairly towards its customers even though their right of access to the courts has been blocked. In fact there are very few guidelines as to procedure and very little definition of "hardship". One unfortunate spin off is that many people in difficulty get their hopes up and go to considerable lengths to plead hardship to their bank in order to get a refund or partial refund of their bank charges only to be refused. Neither the courts nor the FOS have the power to order a bank to make a charges refund on the basis of hardship. We hear of some people obtaining a partial refund quite easily. Others have obtained money by being very persistent - but mostly we hear that people are refused. Even benefits claimants do not automatically receive hardship refunds. By all means try to get a bank charges refund on the basis of hardship - but don't bank on it!

[Karnevil]

Thanks Mushy

I gave them a call and went through my whole financial statement with them. We have agreed to pay £30 a month over 5 years, interest free.

Seems quite fair to me. Will have a juggle a bit but should manage.

Thanks for your advice mushy

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[Mushymoo26]

I am glad you managed to sort it out.

I am glad I could help.

[lnmrobinson]

Thanks Meagain,

Your advice was helpful, I phoned them today (I know you said in writing, but I thought I'd get the ball rolling) asking for any documents they had to say what we had been paid and when.

I'm sorry for saying but she was a right snotty cow. Basically she told me a different story to what I had been told the other day on the phone. Now she is saying that it was only the period that I actually claimed, nothing to do with my ex claiming after I left.
She said that the period in question was April 03 to sep 03 where the overpayment was made (I indeed was claiming then). Previously on the telephone I was told it was for the period up to Oct 04.

Apparently they wrote to me at my new address in May 04 to obtain my yearly p60/wage slips so that they could ascertain if I had been paid correctly between apr/sep 03. I never received this request.

They say that we were overpaid during this time, but how can they know that if they didnt receive any info from me when requested?
I have offered to send my relevant documents so that they can now check correctly but she refused saying that there was a time limit when the request was made and that time limit has lapsed.
She demanded payment from me, or that I continue with my dispute.

Now, I do not dispute that I claimed during the period they are now saying
(apr/sep 03) but I do dispute that I was overpaid as she said on the phone, they needed documents from me & my ex hubby back in 04 to ascertain if we had been paid correctly. If they haven't got this info, how can they say we were overpaid?
I'm wondering if there is any particular wording I should use in my dispute basically they cant prove I was overpaid (because they don't have the relevant docs)and neither can I (because I don't know how they work out what you are entitled to).

Any more help is much appreciated.
Lisa.

[di0430]

Hi
I do hope they sort this out for you. I really think this system they use now for CTC is pathetic !
I haven't had a penny since May 06 even though my hubbys earnings were approx £24K for 2005/06, I have 2 children, age 12 and the other age 18 who continued at further education now sitting his A levels, they know all this, my hubby is the only earner in the household and yet they say the household income is something like £50K a year or less to be eligible !! All i know is in April 07 they will start paying it and i think it works out something like £16 a week and thats with taking off the overpayments owed from 2005/06.
It just doesn't make any sense does it ??? Not a penny now though !!
Good luck to everyone, you can only pay back what you can afford.
Cheers Di

[chaplinsbabe]

I have a huge problem with Tax Credits. I keep all letters they send to me (I do this with anything). They have been trying to claim back overpayments every year since we started claiming in 2002.

Now I have award notices which start off with the right earnings figures on; then 2 months later they change it; we ring, they eventually change it back and then as if by magic it gets changed again.

The problems always come in the new financial year cross over. I would ring them in April and say this is what I earnt last year. They would say we can't update it over the phone you need to wait for your renewal and your P60 to get the true amount. What my March payslip said though was the true amount and my P60 didn't come until May. The renewal form wouldn't come until about June either, hence there's where the overpayment comes from.

Then there was the problem when my partner became self-employed. The first year he filed the tax return in December with an accountant. He didn't hear the results until after January 31st. Tax credits new this because they kept ringing and writing and asking for the info. When he did try to give it to them they said he was over the deadline and although they had noted his earnings they wouldn't accept the figure - hence an overpayment.

Then again when he filed a tax return this year. He knows what he has earnt but Tax Credits will not accept the final figure until the tax office have processed it. When he spoke to them yesterday, the inland revenue said that because they had been on strike on the deadline they were still going through them.

We have been told we have to pay them over £2000 by the 6th March or go to court. What makes me angry is they know our circumstances at the moment. My partner has just been made redundant and is claiming JSA; we have 2 children one of whom is a baby and I work 16 hours a week. Tax credits are paying us £52 a week in CTC and have told us we aren't entitled to anymore WTC. We can't even afford to heat our house and my partner and I don't eat properly so we can feed the kids so where the hell do they think we have £2000 stuffed away?

	What are your rights at work Follow this link to read the review of the Guide to your Rights at work, published by Lawpack

[Mushymoo26]

Hi

I am so sorry to hear about your situation, it makes me so angry that they are putting peoples health at risk.

Right heres what you do. Call them, request an overpayments dispute form to be sent (or you can down load it from thier website). Call them and advise your are disputing this overpayment and that their actions have caused you and your family financial hardship. They will then have to re-assess the situation regarding what you are recieving if you cant afford to eat etc due to them. On the form list everything and if possible take copies of the letters and forms you have. Detail everything even telephone calls. Also speak to whoever at their office is telling you that unless you pay by March they will take you to court. Explain what you are doing, also tell them you will be seeking advise from the CAB. I did this and as soon as I mentioned I would be getting assistance they changed from being very agressive to wanting to help me. If you know the overpayment is their fault, insist that they give you a breakdown of where and when it happened. Take this to CAB. If you dispute the overpayment, they will have to continue paying you at your normal rate (whatever you was getting before this happened) and if you state its causing you financial hardship, it will be quicker. I would also be inclined to ask on what grounds are they going to seek legal action, as all the paperwork indicates that this overpayment was caused by them. I would also advise that you have kept all the letters, award notices and notes of telephone calls. I believe that they are trying to scare parents into paying as they are relying in the fact that they are part of HM Revenue and customs. Try and not let them intimidate you, stand your ground. Let me know if you need any further advice or support.

	Record your calls Follow this link to read the review of the Truecall telephone recorder and call manager. This is the Rolls Royce of call recorders. It's a bit pricey but if you buy it with our special offer you will get it at cost: about 20% discount. How much do we make on the deal? - Nothing at all. You can also buy cheaper devices from Maplins. Truecall is the best - but the important thing is to record your calls.

	Hardship By and large the "harship" provision in the FSA waiver is a myth which is intended to create a sense that the banking industry is sufficiently well-intentioned to act fairly towards its customers even though their right of access to the courts has been blocked. In fact there are very few guidelines as to procedure and very little definition of "hardship". One unfortunate spin off is that many people in difficulty get their hopes up and go to considerable lengths to plead hardship to their bank in order to get a refund or partial refund of their bank charges only to be refused. Neither the courts nor the FOS have the power to order a bank to make a charges refund on the basis of hardship. We hear of some people obtaining a partial refund quite easily. Others have obtained money by being very persistent - but mostly we hear that people are refused. Even benefits claimants do not automatically receive hardship refunds. By all means try to get a bank charges refund on the basis of hardship - but don't bank on it!

[chaplinsbabe]

thank you for that. i shall be going to see the CAB about this. I have had my MP involved with this and they have just been fobbing him off too. How do I go about being able to get hold of all transcripts for phonecalls etc

[Mushymoo26]

Do you Subject Access Request request or get your MP to request them.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[chaplinsbabe]

wont a Data Protection Act request cover it because I can't afford £10 for a Subject Access Request?

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[meagain]

HMRC do not usually charge a fee for SARs. You can call the Data Proection Unit (0191 2257575) for all the necessary details such as what identifying information they would prefer (typically name, address and NI number), and the request goes to:

HM Revenue & Customs
Data Protection Subject Access Unit
Room BP5001
Benton Park View
Newcastle upon Tyne
NE98 1ZZ

This PDF has some useful information, but it may still be worth calling them first if you still have any queries.

[chaplinsbabe]

thanks for your help. it says there is no charge for a Subject Access Request so I will get one written and posted Recorded delivery

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[Mushymoo26]

Hi

As my original petition seems lost in cyber space I have been looking at all the other petitions regarding this.

So for anyone who has had the mis-fortune of dealing with the tax office, please sign this one as well.

petitions.pm.gov.uk/childtaxcredit

Hopefully mine should be on there soon

Thanks