Housing benefit admin penalty & summons ***WON***

[bubblzbee]

ok will do. I will send today. Thanks

[surprise]

I thought you would be interested in this comment from my daughter.

Spoke to the fraud section - she can have a "copy of the tape" how -some authorities do charge - the officer I asked doesn't know if this is
legal or not

On leaving the interview she should have been give a notification that's
states she can have a copy of the tape - (however each authority works
different)

[bubblzbee]

After the interview I was given a couple of letters regarding how to get the tape and about my rights and what happens next, I have not asked for a copy of the tape though, should I get a copy then? The transcript I have is what the council sent me with summons information. As it is not accurate it prob is worth me getting one. I will find out what i need to do and put in a request.

[silverfox1961]

Absolutely, yes , get the tape. If after going to court you manage to get a solicitor, it will save time. As far as I'm aware, a transcript has to be an accurate representation of what is recorded. Any innaccuracies wouldn't look too good for the council.
Keep us informed.

fox

[surprise]

Conflicting advice here, my daughter said to leave it to the ombudsman to do. This is a difficult one really, as (a) you don't want the council to get wind of what's going on (b) on the other hand it is a nice piece of ammunition to have. Also,they may be full of excuses why it may not be available now.

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

[silverfox1961]

Originally Posted by surprise

Conflicting advice here, my daughter said to leave it to the ombudsman to do. This is a difficult one really, as (a) you don't want the council to get wind of what's going on (b) on the other hand it is a nice piece of ammunition to have. Also,they may be full of excuses why it may not be available now.

I was thinking of listening to the tape and comparing it to the transcript. IF there are inaccuracies then a note could be made for the court case. If possible make another copy to send to the ombudsman although they may need the original. If the tape is not available then the court won't look too kindly on that as it's fundamental to BB's defence.

fox
P.S I'm going to tickle your scales as i think the work you've done is great.

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

[surprise]

thank you for the tickle.

I know what you are saying - but what would worry me is if they get wind of whats going on by asking for the tape they may temporarily loose it, whereas if they await for the Ombudsman they will have to produce it, otherwise it wouldn't look good on them, it would be just another nail in their coffin.

BB this is your decision two views on what you can do or shouldn't do - over to you.

Best wishes

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

[silverfox1961]

Surprise.

There is logic in what you are saying.
The court case should be adjourned anyway and then BB may be able to get a brief so in that respect there is no rush to get the tape. I do find it unlikely that the council would lose the tape as it would form part of the prosecution. I was more worried that if there were inaccuracies in the transcript and the witness has signed it as being true then the council will get into lots of trouble and maybe the case thrown out (or is the witness signing that it was the interviewers signature only) ARRGHH! brain ache lol

fox

[silverfox1961]

I was having some random thoughts earlier and i remembered a previous complaint i had with my council. They wouldn't listen to me until i wrote letters of complaint to my MP, MEP and the ombudsman. As soon as my council got a letter from my MP, they settled. Another avenue to follow maybe???

fox

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

[bubblzbee]

I think might be best to wait to hear from the ombudsman before requesting tape. Good point about MP. Will look into that.
The signature is on each piece of evidence, so I think its to declare it is accurate, so to speak.

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

[silverfox1961]

*Quote* so I think its to declare it is accurate,

Well we already know it's not accurate
Is the court case any time soon (don't put the exact date-councils snoop)
A bit about the ombudsman.
When your complaint reaches them it's allocated to an investigator who will do the day to day running of the complaint. Once the investigator has all the information he/she will make a recommendation to the council. The council very rarely refuse but if they do then the investigator takes the case to the chief ombudsman who has the authority to force the council to implement the recommendations but as i said that's a rarity.

as they say forewarned is two legged

fox

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

[bubblzbee]

The court date is soon. Its a bit daunting but I have been doing alot of research into criminal law and my rights and feel more confident than i did in how to present the information as my defence. Its difficult to use the correct wording and format. with the advice given and what I have found on this site its been amazing.

Sorry I meant in respect of the prosecution they believe the evidence to be accurate, and hence they signed as witness.

[silverfox1961]

There's not much more to do for now. all you can do is try and put this to the back of your mind for a few days and deal with each new issue as it happens.
I may not be much help to you but I'll be keeping an eye on the forum and checking in on you.

Take care

fox

[surprise]

Hi - my daughter has just rang me something else occurred to her. When you got your letter about overpayment did it say "Without Prejudice" - if it did then they can't take court action.

Sorry this is coming in waves but it is difficult for her not seeing any documentation or exactly what you have received.

[bubblzbee]

ok, on the original letter informing me of the overpayment and how collecting back it says under further information.
'please note that repayments of overpaid benefit will be accepted 'without prejudice' to any further action the council may take if it is alleged that an offence has been committed.'
From what I can see this is the only time they have put this, it is near bottom.

[silverfox1961]

Morning BB
If i can remember rightly, Letters headed with "without prejudice" can't be used as evidence but with it being within the text of the letter then that doesn't count.

fox

[bubblzbee]

Morning. Thanks it doesn't count then. It is the only time they have put it, but its within text.

[silverfox1961]

Originally Posted by bubblzbee

'please note that repayments of overpaid benefit will be accepted 'without prejudice' to any further action the council may take if it is alleged that an offence has been committed.'

It's the way it's worded. Even if it's all paid off doesn't stop them taking you to court.

fox

[surprise]

I will check with my daughter, as what fox is saying Without Prejudice means that they cannot use it in court but I believe with the LA it has a different meaning but will check first and come back to you.

[surprise]

Yes, that was the paragraph she was referring to and yes they can take further action. She was just checking to see whether they had actually included it. If they hadn't have included it then that would have been another one of their errors.