Tax Credits brick wall

[cyclist]

Hi,

I would be grateful of any advice on the following problem I am having with the Tax Credits bureaucracy!

My girlfriend and I believe we have a case against Tax Credits for unfairly claiming they overpaid us, as a result of us providing them with incorrect income details.

However, we haven't kept any of the award letters from the last 4 / 5 years, except for this years.

I have been phoning and writing to Tax Credits since Nov 07 to try and get them to provide me with copies of our awards; they always say "yes, they are in the post" but we never receive anything.

My last letter was to Allister Darling (I think it's his dept.) but still no joy.

How can I force them to give me the information I require??? Can I send them a S.A.R (subject access request) or is there an equivalent for the public sector??

This is driving us mad!!

cyclist

[uneverdid]

Hi ring them and ask for a form disputing their decision. You can requests copies of all telephone conversation between yourselves and they are duty bound to provide these due to the data protection act. I am sorry i dont have the address to write to for these discs but anyone on the phone should be able to give it you. Whilst you are disputing the overpayments they are not allowed to deduct any payments from you and must reinstate your current award in full.

I have been going through this for 6 months now and i am still ploughing through the discs with the phone calls on.

Good Luck

N

[Spiceskull]

Yes, you can make a Subject Access Request, and it will be seriously dealt with. As with all things similar, the information is held for six years, and is available. You can also ask for a detailed and written breakdown of how and where the overpayment occurred. A specific case officer will deal with your request, and you will get regular updates from this person/department, although I can say now, this could take up to ten weeks to happen.

I will say one thing regarding overpayments: your current year award (CY) is provisionally based on previous year's (PY) income, and this applies for all award periods. If this figure is an estimate, and the estimate is lower than actual household income for the year, then opportunity for overpayment arises...unfortunately this is inbuilt into the system.

I'm sure that everyone knows 31 July is deadline for making your TC declaration, but for estimated incomes (such as self employed) then you still need to make the deadline date with an estimate, and provide actual income figures by 31 January. There is nothing to stop you providing this information earlier, and thus minimising the risks of overpayment.

[cyclist]

Thanks very much for your help uneverdid and Spiceskull.

Yes, you can make a Subject Access Request, and it will be seriously dealt with.

I'll definitely send them an Subject Access Request this weekend. I think it's the only way I'm going to get the info I need.

I understand about the flaws in the system (this years payment being based on last years income), but my argument with them is that we always provided our P60's (so no estimating) and they calculated our award wrong, and it was quite a bit wrong as well, although obviously we didn't realise this until they told us we had been overpaid,... a couple of years later and stopped all current payments!

Then my girlfriend appealed, and they said she was too late to complain!!

I have been going through this for 6 months now and i am still ploughing through the discs with the phone calls on.

Did they actually send you CD's with all your telephone conversations on uneverdid????

I will post back when I have any news - might be a while though!!!

cyclist

[Spiceskull]

The thing with appeals is quite interesting - the terminology is such that you can either appeal an overpayment or dispute an overpayment:

Dispute is when you actually dispute receiving the money, or that the money was incorrectly overpaid. The decision here is based on fact only: did you receive the money or not...

For all other arguments then you must appeal instead. The facts are that the money has been paid (usually the case) so you need to appeal either the calculations or the decision in the award.

An appeal panel is allocated, but they do not make a decision...arbitration is used instead, and the appeal is only closed when BOTH parties reach an agreement...even if that takes five or six years. Theoretically that means you can hold out until they give up...

[therafalution]

a lot of overpayments are caused by people not reporting changes in circumstances. to just provide an estimae for cy and then your p60 is not enough. There can be big differences between cy ests and p60s. You really do need to keep them updated if you do any overtime or change your job and this results in a change in income.

[cyclist]

@SSkull

In our case, we do not dispute receiving the money, but I think we have grounds for appeal because the overpayment was not due to us providing either incorrect financial information, or failing to inform them of any change in circumstances.

the appeal is only closed when BOTH parties reach an agreement

That's useful to know.

@rafa

Thanks for your reply.
I pretty sure we kept TC up to date with any changes in our circumstances, we certainly always phoned them before we got our yearly renewal pack. And we haven't really had any large changes in income anyway (overtime doesn't exist where I work!!).

If we get full details back as a result of the Subject Access Request I think they will make interesting reading.

cyclist

[Spiceskull]

Before making an Subject Access Request, you can ring the helpline and ask them to send a full written breakdown and explanation of how the overpayment occurred. This will be in plainer English than an Subject Access Request (believe me, I work for TC) Onve you have this explanation, you will be better armed to deal with the appeal...

[cyclist]

Thanks for the tip SS, I appreciate it. I'll give the helpline a go and see how I get on.

I've waited this long...a few more weeks won't make much difference, I've got a couple of other "campaigns" on the go at the moment anyway so I'm in no rush to start another one straight away!

[Zamzara]

Originally Posted by Spiceskull

Dispute is when you actually dispute receiving the money, or that the money was incorrectly overpaid. The decision here is based on fact only: did you receive the money or not...

For all other arguments then you must appeal instead. The facts are that the money has been paid (usually the case) so you need to appeal either the calculations or the decision in the award.

Slight nitpick: the terms are actually the other way around.

A decision that an overpayment occurred can be appealed (to an independent social security tribunal.) One thing the Revenue won't tell you is you can appeal out of time if the appeal has a reasonable prospect of success.

A decision concerning whether (and how) to recover an overpayment can only be disputed using the Revenue's own procedure.

[Spiceskull]

Originally Posted by Zamzara

Slight nitpick: the terms are actually the other way around.

Nope, sorry:

Dispute the facts, appeal the decisions...this is TC own internal process, it is a part of what I do...

An interesting aside is this: if you have an ongoing TC claim, and repayments are being recovered in-year or cross-year (in other words if the repayment is being recovered from your TC award payments) then starting either a dispute or an appeal will put the brakes on further recovery until a decision has been agreed.

[Zamzara]

CPAG in Scotland: Tax Credits Overpayments

If you do not agree that you should have to repay the overpayment, you can dispute recovery at any time on form TC846 (available to download from the Revenue’s website, or it can be requested via the Helpline). The form asks you to explain why you think the overpayment was caused by a mistake or wrong advice on the part of the Revenue, and whether you contacted the Revenue about any errors. Make sure you explain fully not only why you think the Revenue caused the overpayment, but also how you met your responsibilities as set out in COP26. The Revenue will stop recovering the overpayment while it considers your request. You can also ask the Revenue not to recover some or all of the overpayment on hardship grounds (see below), or to use their discretion in other exceptional circumstances.

There is no right of appeal to an independent tribunal against a decision by the Revenue to recover an overpayment from you. However, you can appeal to a tribunal if you disagree with the decision on entitlement ie, if you think that you have not been overpaid, or you think that the amount of the overpayment is incorrect.

HM Revenue & Customs: How to dispute a tax credits overpayment

If we've paid you too much tax credit, we may ask you to pay it back. If we made a mistake or gave you incorrect advice, you can dispute our decision. We may then decide to write off some or all of the overpayment.

[cyclist]

ring the helpline and ask them to send a full written breakdown and explanation of how the overpayment occurred

requested.

I really appreciate all the input, just shows what a difficult area this is to deal with!

Even more so for someone "outside" the system!

Will post back with info when received.

cyclist