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> Benefits, Tax Credits and Minimum Wage

Benefits, Tax Credits and Minimum Wage Having problems with benefits / deductions, or want to discuss entitlement etc. this is the place. Other matters include Tax Credit issues and also advice for those on / or below minimum wage.


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Old 20th June 2008, 14:49   #1 (permalink)
forgottenone
Platinum Account Customer
Default Crisis loan ... want me to repay back at £7.26 per week!! am on IB with multiple debtors!! urgent any advice, please??

Cos of mounting debt, was forced to apply for a crisis loan yesterday for the first time in my life. Now, cos I've missed a day now - because of DWP's high volume of claims ie it's not my fault I've missed a day or you'd assume that - I have been awarded a very small amount of around £40. I've got to pick it up today ... great ... couldn't go out yesterday, and I had to or face the consequences of another DCA chasing me for falling behind with payments ... so I HAVE to go today or else! ... but what has happened is I've been told I've got to pay it back at £7.26 a week!! What do I do here??? Can I ask for it to be decreased given my circumstances ie am in very very serious debt totalling over £10000 - which they were told about yesterday, why I have no money cos outgoings exceed incomings monthly excessively ie nothing left to live on - and have no savings, no other income and subsist solely on IB alone.

I want to go and get the money today but ... how the hell can I afford £7.26 a week??? I can't. The other worry is if my other creditors find out I am making a payment exceeding my token payments to each per month then ... well, it will create further problems because they will then ASK why I am paying the social fund more ... I don't want anymore pressure in this direction, I really don't.

Does anyone know if I can get these payments reduced? If not, I'd much rather not collect it, go with out because there is no way I can pay £7.26 on top of other priority debts. I was under the impression you could or it would be set over a few months not FOUR weeks! What the problem is is I have IB and that's - utterly insanely - considered 'above the threshold' of living allowance per week. Well, okay, but out of £409 per month when everything gets paid, I pay my debtors or the consequences mean I could lose a place to live, court action ... and so on ... there is approximately £-100 left!

Can anyone offer assistance on this? I've got to go before 3.30 to collect the giro or they will cancel it. But I don't want to collect it because it means paying back a rate I cannot afford per week! What do I do?? I do need the money, but it's another debt.

Can I negotiate to get it reduced??? I never thought I'd be asking for a crisis loan in my life ... and I feel terrible having to even ask for one ... but right now things are so bad recently I almost, but not quite, went without food for 4 days I nearly had no money left.

Just I thought with a crisis loan, if you were on benefits, you had longer or could get longer to pay it back? £7.26 seems a bit excessive but they are using the 'threshold' of IB here! That it's 'enough to live' on.

All I know is I am going to miss a vital payment to a creditor now - I can't use that money, even though DWP would like me to instead of a crisis loan because it HAS to be paid to the creditor ... or I will break my payment arrangement with them ... so it isn't my money because it's set aside to pay them. Obviously DWP would think otherwise, despite me being taken to court, costs if I didn't pay them.

So, any help on this eg getting a reduce amount to pay back per week would be great.
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Old 20th June 2008, 15:41   #2 (permalink)
forgottenone
Platinum Account Customer
Default Re: Crisis loan ... want me to repay back at £7.26 per week!! am on IB with multiple debtors!! urgent any advice, plea

Won't be collecting it now. Thank God I looked at their website for how repayments are made. Literally, minutes ago ... was never told it came from my benefit per week! No way could do that. If it was paid back separately from reducing my benefit, it would be okay. Did explain my circumstances, ie multiple debts. Back to square one now. I can't apply for DLA because I have no trouble with my mobility or so a relative would like me or have me believe. Trouble is, then how the heck do people who claim it fraudulently get away with it, then? If they have no genuine problems, yet I have.

Cancelled the giro but only just ... means got no money but picking it up means I get into a worse mess with debts. Wiser to cancel than have that I think.
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Old 20th June 2008, 21:41   #3 (permalink)
PriorityOne
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I am in: a house no longer in Debt Row...;-)
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Default Re: Crisis loan ... want me to repay back at £7.26 per week!! am on IB with multiple debtors!! urgent any advice, plea

If you have not already started threads in the debt forums, then I suggest you do so. Non-secured debt should never take priority over anything else, no matter how much these companies may spout out otherwise. Stop talking to them on the 'phone.... or they will fill your head with all kinds of bowlarks.

Also, you should put in a claim for DLA regardless of what you friend has said.... you may get the Care component and there are 3 rates to this.
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Old 22nd June 2008, 13:37   #4 (permalink)
loan_ranger
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I am in: Farnborough, S.E. England
Posts: 24
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Default Re: Crisis loan ... want me to repay back at £7.26 per week!! am on IB with multiple debtors!! urgent any advice, plea

Hi "forgottenone",

I have been running a website dedicated to helping and advising people towards obtaining fair treatment from JCP when they apply for a Crisis Loan. I began this in January 2007 when my local JCP unlawfully refused to accept a paper claim or a face-to-face application from a friend of mine, I telephoned the JCP and was very persistent on this point of law until they finally allowed me to speak to the manageress (the third person I had to speak to), she capitulated and invited my friend for an almost immediate CL interview so that she could enter the claim onto the computer system straight away and get things moving.
A copy of the Social Fund (directions) guide (.pdf) used by the "Decision Makers" (DMs'/DM) is available c/o the DWP here - the Crisis Loans section begins on page 62, I keep an (easier to browse) HTML version of the Crisis Loans section with navigation anchors here, (right click on the link and open it in a new tab or window so that you can navigate between this pm and the guide as needed) any references to "items" or "directions" made in this pm are from the latter document.

Unfortunately I can't help with debt advice, however I wholly agree with what "PriorityOne" said regarding starting a new thread for this in the debt forums. As far as I can see (only my uninformed opinion - not to be followed in the place of more competent advice) you should check out an I.V.A., according to the advert on TV "under government legislation" you can have some of your debts reduced and others written off and have your repayments fixed at a more affordable amount. Furthermore I endorse the advice that you should apply for DLA, my schizophrenic Niece gets middle rate DLA and has no physical impairments at all!
The laws on Social Security and Social Fund payments are intended for your subsistence only and are quite clear that your creditors' aren't entitled to any part of these payments for the purposes of paying them off - especially where interest is being charged. There are just a few exceptions to the rule e.g. you still need to pay for on-going expenses such as utilities, taxes and mortgage interest if the government has agreed to award you some money for this purpose.

From reading your pm I'm getting the inference that the CL is a one-off due to some other delayed payment caused by the DWP's current inability to cope with the overall number of claims. This would come under item 189 (Hardship due to payment of regular income in arrears) However, I have found from experience of pm s' in these forums that the full circumstances are often more complex than described in the pm, and I'm also aware that applying for a CL can be a demeaning experience for most people, therefore I've enhanced my reply with some extra information for your benefit.

I would first like to point out that the £40 award seems rather mean - I say this because a CL for living expenses can be meant to last up to a fortnight and the maximum amount should correspond to 75% of the current rate of Income Support (see item 234.) The rules also stipulate that the maximum amount of CL debt must not exceed £1500 and that it can be repaid over (max. period) 104 weeks and that you can repeatedly submit an unlimited number of claims (as and when the need arises due to changing circumstances (see direction 7, items 124 -128 ) until the £1500 limit is reached. You were right to refuse the repayment terms and decline the loan - I suggest that you re-apply and ask for a much longer repayment period.
You can also ask for an appeal against a CL decision, this should be done first via JCP, then, if you still disagree with the outcome - you may apply to The Independent Review Service for the Social Fund to overturn and improve JCP's ruling, at least 40% of appeals submitted to IRS are changed in favour of the claimant - this process is fairly quick usually - due to IRS having a statutory obligation. Unfortunately, at the time of writing, the IRS server seems to be unavailable due to technical problems -try again later e.g. Monday.

I'm surprised that the DM is taking into regard your IB because this benefit isn't even mentioned in the guidance for DMs', it only refers to IS, JSA and Pension Credits (see items 184-186) - however what may be operating against you could be home ownership (see items 191 &192, that is, assuming you're a home owner and that you have more than £8000 equity in your home, your pm didn't cover this point?) Another factor which DMs' have to take into consideration is your ability to repay (see items 253, 254 & 257)
I personally find the idea that someone should be forced to sell their home in order to 'make ends meet' somewhat perverse seeing as the waiting lists for social housing run into many years wait (6 years+ for a house following a repo according to latest surveys) my local housing authority made 37 single bedroom flats available last year - the waiting list is in excess of 3000 applicants! So then you try the private sector landlords and 99% refuse to accommodate benefit claimants as a matter of course. Thus you end up homeless without any duty on the local authority to help because selling your home is considered as "deliberately making yourself homeless" under the housing and homelessness acts - thereby absolving the LA's duty. In fact you would need to have your home repossessed for the LA to find you emergency B&B and get a CL to cover storage of your furniture, consumer durables etc. as a stop-gap.
It infuriates me that there has never been a legal precedent of a private landlord or lettings agency being sanctioned under the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 (and) 2005 (see here for info).

If you re-apply for a CL and are only given the 0800 call centre number and find it impossible to get through to a human, it's worth knowing that JCP cannot refuse a clerical claim (form sf.401 down-loadable/printable c/o the DWP) or alternatively a face-to-face interview if circumstances demand e.g. as a matter of urgency. (See here)

Here's another tip for you, it may help if you could open another separate bank account at another bank - specifically for clearing your benefits (inform JCP of the new bank details ASAP and preferably in writing) to prevent your usual bank charging you if you get overdrawn by accident or circumstances - even though it is unlawful for the bank to use your benefits to pay themselves they do it anyway - reclaiming the money back from them can be a nightmare and is best avoided if possible!
Furthermore might I suggest that you contact your nearest Citizens Advice Bureau and ask to speak with a debt adviser who can give you proper legal advice.

Hope this has helped,

kind regards,

L.R. Admin.
__________________
I'm not a qualified welfare rights adviser, but I'm planning on becoming one. I'm no substitute for more competent advice from trained CAB and welfare rights workers - see this post by Joa, great advice and links!
I've been running a Crisis Loan campaign and help website since Jan 2007 . See my posts c/o "theyworkforyou". I'm also currently interested by the recent DWP Medical Services reform and the effect this is having on valid claims, seriously - someone needs to be keeping a suicide count.
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