housing benefit and bank statement

[binkhus]

hi everyone
i just started work again after being on income support and i only work 16 hours a week so was told to claim some housing benefit and council tax benefit. i took in all my working tax credit awards forms and child tax credits forms and wage slips everything thyat proves what money im getting in. the lady said i still had to bring in a recent bank staement to prove i hadnt won the lottery or something. now i havent won the lottery or owt but still a bit peeved that everyone in benefit office will see not only what money iv got coming in but what iv spent money on too. they will see what iv spent on shopping what iv spent at chemist ect what if i was a keen ann summers fan or liked to buy sex films ( i would like to point out that they wont see anything like that). i would like to marker out all the money going out and just leave the incoming income and final ballance. i think its awful they are allowd to see what is really a very private thing. any comments?

[borisbeaver]

All information you pass to the council is treated in a confidential manner.

They just need to confirm that your pay advice corresponds to your bank account. This is used as a fraud check and also as part of an identity check.

You may find it very difficult getting your award with them seeing the statement.

[binkhus]

thanks for advise im taking it in tommorrow it was just a bit of a niggle really just didnt fancy them all knowing everything about what i spend my money on.

[borisbeaver]

Too be honest, they won't give a monkey what you spend your money on.

[binkhus]

iv handed everything in now but was looking at the european conventions on human rights and it rights to privacy. now dont get me wrong i know im prob just p****D off over nowt but i provided them with every detail of my income, wage slips, tax credits forms ect and they still wanted to see what i would consider to be a very private thing on the off chance i had won the lottery and still wanted to claim £45 a week housing benefit.

[Lefty]

Actually, I very much agree with you. I think that what happens in your finances (bank account) is a private as what happens in your bedroom.

Cheers
Lefty

[Invasive_Frost]

I know I am now late with this advice but you can always blank out the payee with a black marker pen if you don't want your local council to know where you have been spending your money, it is the amounts coming in that they will be concerned with.

[binkhus]

thanx frost thats what i thought about doing but couldnt be bothered with the hassle really. it just makes me angry that because im on a low wage and need some help they get to seee my bank statements.

[IdaInFife]

i felt the same although the claim is in my Oh name , he had to sign the docs', he does not have a bank account but they demanded to see my bank statments!!

I was well miffed.

Then they could see i was paying my council tax late each month

Idax

[redsonja]

Sorry couldnt resist to comment on this.

Whilst I agree you may see it as an invasion, you need to understand that a lot of fraudulent activity goes on when people are claiming benefits.

They ask to see your bank account statements to prove that all of the income you say you receive, you are receiving and you are not receiving anything you havent declared.

Benefit Officers wont give a hoot about what you spend your money on but there is quite a lot of information that can be checked on a bank statement to prove you are not committing fraud.

I wouldnt suggest blacking out your outgoings as there are certain fraudulent checks needed on outgoings too.

I for one, would prefer to provide information needed to help them combat the fraud that costs us taxpayers.

This post was just to try and explain why they ask for it and hopefully you now understand thats it's not due to intrusion.

[Lefty]

Originally Posted by redsonja

Sorry couldnt resist to comment on this.

Originally Posted by redsonja

Whilst I agree you may see it as an invasion, you need to understand that a lot of fraudulent activity goes on when people are claiming benefits.

They ask to see your bank account statements to prove that all of the income you say you receive, you are receiving and you are not receiving anything you havent declared.

Benefit Officers wont give a hoot about what you spend your money on but there is quite a lot of information that can be checked on a bank statement to prove you are not committing fraud.

I wouldnt suggest blacking out your outgoings as there are certain fraudulent checks needed on outgoings too.

I for one, would prefer to provide information needed to help them combat the fraud that costs us taxpayers.

This post was just to try and explain why they ask for it and hopefully you now understand thats it's not due to intrusion.

Innocent until proven guilty, eh? Unless, of course, you're a benefit claimant!

Oh, and by the way...

"...costs us taxpayers?" Benefit claimants are tax payers, too.


With respect
Lefty

[robin9342]

Originally Posted by redsonja

Sorry couldnt resist to comment on this.

Whilst I agree you may see it as an invasion, you need to understand that a lot of fraudulent activity goes on when people are claiming benefits.

They ask to see your bank account statements to prove that all of the income you say you receive, you are receiving and you are not receiving anything you havent declared.

Benefit Officers wont give a hoot about what you spend your money on but there is quite a lot of information that can be checked on a bank statement to prove you are not committing fraud.

I wouldnt suggest blacking out your outgoings as there are certain fraudulent checks needed on outgoings too.

I for one, would prefer to provide information needed to help them combat the fraud that costs us taxpayers.

This post was just to try and explain why they ask for it and hopefully you now understand thats it's not due to intrusion.

Sorry, have to disagree. The council have no need whatsoever to see exactly what you decide to spend your money on, even if the information is treated confidentially. All they need to see in deciding your claim is simply your current balance, plus the total money in/out of the account: That would be sufficient to see if there was any fraud going on.

My bank provides statements which contain a "summary" page which shows the opening and closing balance, total in plus total out. I gave the summary to my council and refused to give them my fully itemised statements. They accepted this and paid HB in full.

[redsonja]

Oh dear...didnt intend to start a debate on this, I just wanted to try and explain why they ask for it.

I meant "us" as in everyone other than fraudsters.

Also, they arent looking at what you spend your money on, they are looking for transactions that you havent declared.....unfortunatel y I cant say what as it would give to much information away.

Im very surprised the benefit department allowed you to just give summary pages. They are breaking a regulation by doing that. Usually they would refuse benefit if you dont supply the relevant information.

[robin9342]

Originally Posted by redsonja

Oh dear...didnt intend to start a debate on this, I just wanted to try and explain why they ask for it.

I meant "us" as in everyone other than fraudsters.

Also, they arent looking at what you spend your money on, they are looking for transactions that you havent declared.....unfortunatel y I cant say what as it would give to much information away.

Im very surprised the benefit department allowed you to just give summary pages. They are breaking a regulation by doing that. Usually they would refuse benefit if you dont supply the relevant information.

I am puzzled now. You say they aren't looking at what you spend your money on, but that they are looking for transactions you haven't declared. Surely, transactions are what you have spent your money on? (as well as credits, of course)

As you know, I could have up to £6000 in my account without any effect on HB or CTB. If I decide to spend, say £5000 on a holiday or a new car, then what business is that of the council?

Out of interest, please can you tell me what regulation applies to this?

[redsonja]

Robin

They arent looking at what you spend you money on. Transactions consist of debit, credits and transfers.

If you spent £5000 on a car or a holiday then that is no problem....especially when you are below the capital threshold anyway.

If you had say...15k in your account and within a week spent 9k then that would raise questions as some claimants purposely have a diminuation of capital just so they can claim full benefit.

Off the top of my head I cant remember the exact regulation (it's late lol) but it falls under the Verification Framework rules set up...it's something like section 19.....from my memory.

[robin9342]

Originally Posted by redsonja

Robin

They arent looking at what you spend you money on. Transactions consist of debit, credits and transfers.

If you spent £5000 on a car or a holiday then that is no problem....especially when you are below the capital threshold anyway.

If you had say...15k in your account and within a week spent 9k then that would raise questions as some claimants purposely have a diminuation of capital just so they can claim full benefit.

Off the top of my head I cant remember the exact regulation (it's late lol) but it falls under the Verification Framework rules set up...it's something like section 19.....from my memory.

Yes, I quite agree that this would raise questions. However, this kind of expenditure would show up in the account summary, without the council having to know how much I spent in Tesco last week! The claimant would then be asked to justify the figures.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for fraud prevention, but I just see it as further snooping by an already oversurveilled big brother society.

As you have mentioned deprivation of capital and as I have previously been affected by this, I thought I would post the following which I found very interesting and may be useful to others.

If a claimant has in excess of £16000, there are various legitimate ways of "spending" it which shouldn't affect HB or CTB entitlement:

P1.703 A claimant should still be regarded as having deprived themself of a capital resource if they have disposed themself of it by way of a gift to a third party. However, they should not be regarded as depriving themself of it if they did it to
HB(SPC) Reg 47; CTB(SPC) Reg 37

• reduce or pay off a debt they owe
• purchase goods or services the Decision Maker considers reasonable, given their circumstances, eg
  • payments to reduce/pay off a debt, eg paying a credit card account or mortgage early
  • for day to day expenses
  • to improve their quality of life, eg buying a new kitchen or car
  • for medical treatment
  • for home repairs
  • for a holiday