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> Benefits, Tax Credits and Minimum Wage

Benefits, Tax Credits and Minimum Wage Having problems with benefits / deductions, or want to discuss entitlement etc. this is the place. Other matters include Tax Credit issues and also advice for those on / or below minimum wage.


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Old 12th February 2008, 12:33   #1 (permalink)
loz
Classic Account Customer
 
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Default HMRC want 2005 Working Tax Credit back

Late last week I answered my mobile to a call from the "debt recovery" arm of HMRC; who claim I was overpaid over £800 on a WTC claim in 2005. They have been trying to inform me of this by writing to an address I moved out of over 2 years ago, and never tried calling me until now - I did them a favour by answering (damn it!)...

Firstly there is no way I can pay this, secondly I am not accepting the say-so of some guy on the phone so I have sent a Subject Access Request requesting everything relating to this claim. I have also checked the existing paperwork I could find, plus my pay slips from that year, and they are asking me to repay more than I received in the first place!!

As far as I remember the application form asks for details of your wages for the previous year - as I had just changed from thin-on-the-ground temping to a proper job, so any "change of circumstances" effectively happened before my application and if their form asks the wrong questions surely that isn't my fault?!? I hope that the Subject Access Request will confirm that I answered their questions correctly; I really don't need this right now that A&L have screwed me and are hiding behind the OFT case

Loz
__________________
Alliance + Leicester are going to get a big hobnail boot up their ar$€
BT: Where do I start?!?
HSBC: £1222 refunded 28/5/06; Second claim of £737-24 refunded 9/11/06; pursuing PPI + interest on personal loan
MBNA: £100 refunded on first claim of £112; £208 refunded on second claim for £108 24/9/07; PPI £256-28 refunded 8/4/08
NatWest: £1581-71 refunded 16/12/06; personal loan CCA agreement not provided
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Old 12th February 2008, 20:15   #2 (permalink)
mooreda
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Default Re: HMRC want 2005 Working Tax Credit back

Hi - have a gander at this website - may be of use:

Child Poverty Action Group

Tax credits: putting things right - Summary and recommendations
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Old 12th February 2008, 21:21   #3 (permalink)
loz
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Default Re: HMRC want 2005 Working Tax Credit back

Thanks for that mooreda - it looks like I've been caught out in part by that £2500 / £25000 change. As I also suspect thousands have other people have been. What's with that change anyway, it's like admitting that somebody made a typo...?
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Old 9th March 2008, 02:04   #4 (permalink)
loz
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Default Re: HMRC want 2005 Working Tax Credit back

I got a jiffy bag full of paper off HMRC.. hope to find some time to sit down later today and look through it. FWIW this is the only thing I've heard from them since I foolishly returned their call
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Old 9th March 2008, 21:19   #5 (permalink)
Yellow160
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Default Re: HMRC want 2005 Working Tax Credit back

Good Luck! Im having trouble getting them to accept my re-payment plan for my overpayments. They seem to make it as hard as possible. At least if they do take it further i have copies of the letters i sent and recorded delivery slips to prove they have been signed for.
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Old 10th September 2008, 09:01   #6 (permalink)
loz
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Default Re: HMRC want 2005 Working Tax Credit back

HMRC's explanation, which took over three months to write:
Quote:
Thank you for your letter of 8 May 2008 asking for an explanation of your tax credits overpayment for tax year 2005-2006. I am sorry for the delay in replying.

I have considered the information you have provided and checked our records to determine the reason for your overpayment. I have found that the overpayment arose because of an increase in your annual income.

A tax credits award runs in line with the tax year, from 6 April through to 5 April of the following year. Your award is normally based on your annual income from the previous tax year. After 5 April each year, we send you a renewal pack asking you to check the information we hold about you and to tell us your actual annual income for the tax year that has just ended.

Whilst we wait for you to send us this information, we make provisional payments from 6 April. This is to prevent a break in your payments.

On 5 October 2005 you told us that your correct annual income was £17,780.00. This reduced your entitlement to £0.00 which was shown on your award notice dated 10 October 2005.

In total, you received £51.14 paid direct to you and £794.49 paid to you via your employer on your award for 2005-2006. This means that you were overpaid by £845.63, which is the difference between the amount we paid you and the amount you were entitled to receive.


For us to write off an overpayment, you must be able to show that you have met all of your responsibilities as set out in our Code of Practice 26. To meet these responsibilities you must have:
  • provided us with accurate and up to date information when you made or renewed your claim;
  • checked that all the personal details on your award notices were correct and told us straight away if any personal details were recorded incorrectly;
  • told us promptly about any changes of circumstances throughout the year; and
  • checked that the payments you were receiving matched what we told you we would pay.
Having considered all of the relevant facts about how your overpayment arose, I do not think that you met all of these responsibilities. This is because your income increased when you came to finalise your award. For this reason, I cannot write off the overpayment and you will have to pay the money back.
It is my firm opinion that this has arisen mostly because of the ridiculous way in which WTC is calculated. My initial claim was made in March 2005, when I had been earning a "proper" wage for 10 months; however as we all know the claim form asks for details of earnings in the previous tax year, in this case 2003-04 during which I was temping and earning half as much.
I had no reason to believe that they wanted to know my current earnings when I applied. They asked about the previous year on their form, I don't understand how they work it out so I can only answer the question they ask, right?

Their review form arrived towards the end of May 2005. I admit I was slack in returning it (in September) - I don't know why but if I understood their system properly I would have realised the urgency in returning it. I answered the questions honestly and in early October I received two letters simultaneously.

The first stated that I had been paid too much for 2004-05 and that I owed £112.13 ie. 100% of the WTC for that period. I found record of a cheque I wrote in November 2005 for this amount, but I cannot remember any more about this.

The second was regarding the WTC I received from April 2005, which contains the following:
Quote:
  • Amount you owe us that will be collected from future years £845.63
  • Less amount we have already paid you for this period £688.97
  • Amount to be paid £156.66
They then went on to make two further payments in October and November 2005 to bring the amount I had received up to the amount they say I owe them. WTF?

My whole claim was effectively a waste of everybody's time, simply because they didn't ask the most relevant question at the outset, ie. "what are you earning now?", then their paperwork refers to "income for tax credit purposes". And because I didn't (and still don't) understand all this, I didn't return the review form quick enough - presumably because cash was tight and the form said it had to be returned by the end of September 2005 - so now they want hundreds of pounds back and I feel I haven't a leg to stand on.

Can anyone offer me any advice?
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Old 15th September 2008, 09:35   #7 (permalink)
loz
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Default Re: HMRC want 2005 Working Tax Credit back

bump
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Old 15th September 2008, 11:05   #8 (permalink)
Zamzara
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Default Re: HMRC want 2005 Working Tax Credit back

You're right in that the overpaymnet was not your fault and was caused by a flaw in the system. The bad news is they can legally recover all tax credits overpayments anyway.

If you are disputing the fact that an overpayment occured, then you can appeal this to an independent tribunal.

Last edited by Zamzara; 15th September 2008 at 11:11.
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Old 30th September 2008, 13:06   #9 (permalink)
loz
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Default Re: HMRC want 2005 Working Tax Credit back

I think my best options are stated on their form TC846:
Quote:
You must be able to show that
• we made a mistake or gave you incorrect advice and
• it was reasonable for you to think your payments were right.
Their "mistake" IMHO was asking me what my earnings for the previous year were, instead of current earnings. This led me to believe that the system was based on the previous year's earnings and that they did not want to know about current earnings - therefore it was "reasonable" for me to think my payments were right.

Thoughts anyone?
Loz
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Old 30th September 2008, 18:37   #10 (permalink)
Frazzled48
Basic Account Customer
Default Re: HMRC want 2005 Working Tax Credit back

It seems that we can't win in any situation - I have proved to the Tax Credits department that they made a mistake and I have seen my paper work that shows a comment ' overpayment made due to error' but it seems I am expected to pay it back because I did not advise them that they had made an error within 30 days (even though it took them 60 days to send me their paperwork which I needed to prove the error). My problem was not even earnings related but down to how they applied a pension payment (Capital not Income).This will test how well their Code Of Practice works!!!!

Try getting the help of your MPs office - mine have been brilliant.
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