The History Thread

[Castlebest]

A Place to share all those little known "facts" that come to light concerning our forefathers (and mother's)

Before the Battle of Agincourt in 1415, the French, anticipating victory over the English, proposed to cut off the middle finger of all captured English soldiers since without the middle finger it would be impossible to draw and fire the most feared weapon in the English armory, the renowned English long bow and therefore the soldiers would be incapable of fighting in the future.

The English longbow was made of the native English Yew tree, and the act of drawing the longbow was known as "plucking the yew".

Much to the bewilderment of the French, the English won a major upset and began mocking the French by waving their middle fingers at the defeated French soldiers, saying, See, we can still pluck yew! Since 'pluck yew' is rather similar to another basic Anglo Saxon phrase, the difficult consonant cluster at the beginning has gradually changed to a labiodentals fricative F' and thus the words often used in conjunction with the one-finger-salute.

The pheasant feather flights on the arrows used with the longbow explains the other colloquial reference to this symbolic gesture "giving the bird."

[Lula]

OK, also, When people use the phrase "excuse my Anglo Saxon" or "that person used some very Anglo Saxon language" meaning that the person in question swore alot, it is actually inaccurate, there were no real swear words in the Anglo saxon language

[jowalshy]

The two-fingered salute - the V-Sign - is still used today when the index and middle finger is held aloft as an obscene gesture of total disdain and derision! This salute dates back to the English Longbowman who fought the French during the Hundred Years War (1337 - 1453). The French hated the English archers who used the Longbow with such devastating effect. Any English archers who were caught by the French had their Index and middle fingers chopped off from their right hand- a terrible penalty for an archer. This led to the practice of the English archers, especially in siege situations, taunting their French enemy with their continued presence by raising their two fingers in the 'Two-Fingered Salute' meaning "You haven't cut off my fingers !"

[Bookworm]

Sorry, folks, but incorrect. The 2-fingers salute has nothing to do with the French, it is a purely insular affair, I'm afraid.

Its origins go back to poachers, and more specifically, those would would poach on the King's property. If caught by the gamekeepers, there was a range of punishments, one of them was to cut one or 2 fingers.

There is absolutely no evidence to show that this kind of treatment was used in times of war, from either side. If you had yourself a non-noble, you killed him, if you had a nobleman, you ransomed him. Simple as that.

Furthermore, the devastation wrought by topography and the weather at Agincourt means that the whole idea of the English waving their fingers at the few remaining French is preposterous, we are not talking of one lot sneering at the others from behind trenches or walls of a fort.

To note that the battle of Crecy in 1346 is when longbows were first used to great advantage, due to the element of surprise that they introduced, since they were highly effective against armour. Both the battles of Verneuil and Patay resulted in a far less productive result for the longbow users.

Signed: Medievalist Bookie. (I even learned Medieval French so I could read books in the original language, doesn't come much more labour of love than that! )

[jowalshy]

I did know all that. Just thought that the little urban myth sounded good...lol.

[jowalshy]

The word Pillock:-

'Pillock' is another word which was revived in Till Death Us Do Part. Its origins are in the word 'pillicock', which is northern English slang for 'penis', and which compares with the shorter and more southern 'cock'. The earliest usage recorded in the OED describes someone getting their feet wet and saying: 'Mi pilkoc ****eth on mi schone' (schone' meaning shoes). Pillock is no longer considered obscene. British politician Mo Mowlem was filmed on TV in a shopping precinct during the 2001 general election campaign telling someone wearing an odd shop uniform that they looked 'a complete pillock'. Everyone smiled, possibly with relief that Ms Mowlem, who has a reputation for using 'short words', used one of the longer and more repeatable ones.