CrispDust v Barclays ***WON*** - Page 2

Alleycat · 16th May 2006, 22:14

I've just had a play around with yours and have cut it down as much as I can. I have added a few bits in regarding the terminology (hope you don't mind!). I've managed to get it down to 1072 characters including spaces.

The Claimant had a contract(the Acct) with the Defendant which is now closed. Whilst the Account was open, the Defendant debitedcharges in respect of breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant contends thatthe charges debited are punitive in nature, are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant, exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant due to breaches of contract by the Claimant and do not represent any alleged actual loss. Therefore the charges are invalid under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977s.4 and unenforceable as they are contrary tocommon law. In the event that the charges are not a penalty then they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15. The Claimant claims the return of £715.00, relevant interest charged and interest under section 69 County Courts Act at the rate of 8% a year from **/**/** to **/**/** of £** and at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of £**p.

CrispDust · 23rd May 2006, 21:40

Data Protection Act letter sent 9th March
Statements arrived 25th March
Prelim letter sent 31st March
LBA sent (recorded) 19th April
24th April (dated) usual standard reply with no offer of money. Reply to Prelim letter NOT LBA which had already been sent by this point
Moneyclaim filed 17th May, served 22nd May
Acknowledged 22nd May 2006
Defence filed 16th June.
Damn I was hoping for default judgement.
Never mind, might be time for a wee chat with Mr Jeremiah...

jonni2bad · 23rd May 2006, 22:12

Thanks for the update, but please stick to one thread.

Can you summarise the claim for our Litigation in Progress section?

Something like;

Claim No: CX12345

Claim amount;
Bank charges £XXXX.00
Interest on charges £XXX.00
Court costs £XXX.00
Total £XXXX.00

At The Anywhere County Court
23/05/2006

CrispDust · 23rd May 2006, 22:38

I wanted to change the title of my thread but you can't which is why a started a more appropriately titled thread. But you have done it for me by merging, thanks.

chrismc · 28th May 2006, 20:06

So many addresses here, but I think the gist is you send Data Protection Act's to Radbroke Hall and as Sharon seems to have taken over the reigns she will be getting a nice welcome letter from me, this week!!

FAO Sharon Caffery
Subject Access Officer
Barclays Bank plc - Data Protection
Radbroke Hall
Knutsford
Cheshire
WA16 9EU

Chris

Pezboy · 2nd June 2006, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlotte owen

customer relations
consumer finance
barclays bank plc
Astley Byrom house
manchester
M3 4AE

This wont go anywhere inparticular, the full name for this team is 'Consumer Finance Debt Management'.. they deal with accounts that are experiencing debt issues.

A more appropriate address for all complaints going to Barclays is:

Barclays Bank PLC
Leicester
LE87 2BB

Unless specifically told to send it elsewhere, on a personal level.. all mail sent anywhere else will be forwarded to the address I have given.

In an attempt to save people time, and get their claims through quicker, I suggest writting to that address... as Barclays will sure as hell use that as a stalling tactic.

I hope this helps

CrispDust · 10th June 2006, 23:08

8 days to go! Although defense will have to be filed by Friday 16th as 18th is a Sunday.
I think - can somebody just confirm the 28 days includes the date of service/acknowlgedment ie 22nd May so I can enter default on 19th June?

MARTIN3030 · 12th June 2006, 10:53

Got Data Protection Act reply from Peter Townsend Data protection Radbrook Hall Knutsford Cheshire WA16 9EU TEL 01565 614000

chrismc · 12th June 2006, 11:27

Peter Townsend and Sharon Caffery are the only two worth dealing with at Barclays Bank plc - Data Protection - Radbroke Hall

Penny.forum · 14th June 2006, 20:14

Hi - pleased to meet you all. If there is a 'meet and greet' thread that I should have posted to, I'm sorry I overlooked it (being all green and newbie looking!).

I'm going to attempt to reclaim my partner's fines from Barclays Bank - I'll write the letters and he'll sign them. Step one, the Data Protection Act letter is ready to post first thing tomorrow - having looked at this thread, I'm going to send it to the Leicester, LE87 2BB address, enclosing a £10 cheque payable to Barclays Bank Plc and I plan to send it registered post (the one where they have to sign to say they've received it?). Does this all sound correct? Or have a made any glaring 'school boy errors'?! Need a vote of confidence before I post it off tomorrow! Bit nervous about all this.

chrismc · 14th June 2006, 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penny.forum

Hi - pleased to meet you all. If there is a 'meet and greet' thread that I should have posted to, I'm sorry I overlooked it (being all green and newbie looking!).

I'm going to attempt to reclaim my partner's fines from Barclays Bank - I'll write the letters and he'll sign them. Step one, the Data Protection Act letter is ready to post first thing tomorrow - having looked at this thread, I'm going to send it to the Leicester, LE87 2BB address, enclosing a £10 cheque payable to Barclays Bank Plc and I plan to send it registered post (the one where they have to sign to say they've received it?). Does this all sound correct? Or have a made any glaring 'school boy errors'?! Need a vote of confidence before I post it off tomorrow! Bit nervous about all this.

Welcome PennyF send it to Leicester or here where I sent mine, I think they are both handled the same and probably end up with Peter Townsend at Radbroke Hall anyway, he was the guy who agreed to send me my statements etc etc.

FAO Sharon Caffery
Subject Access Officer
Barclays Bank plc - Data Protection
Radbroke Hall
Knutsford
Cheshire
WA16 9EU

Read all the FAQ's and send of your Data Protection Act as worded in the Bank Templates Library with your £10 recorded delivery, then you sit back and wait for them to come up with various excuses and delaying tactics, but you will get there eventually. Just follow the step by step guide, it is proven and tested.

Chris

PS once you have sent off your first Data Protection Act start a new thread under Barclays and just update it as things happen. That way people can find and help you. Have you opened a parachute account yet?

CrispDust · 16th June 2006, 22:05

Update:
Data Protection Act letter sent 9th March
Statements arrived 25th March
Prelim letter sent 31st March
LBA sent (recorded) 19th April
24th April (dated) usual standard reply with no offer of money. Reply to Prelim letter NOT LBA which had already been sent by this point
Moneyclaim filed 17th May, served 22nd May
Acknowledged 22nd May 2006
Defence filed 16th June.
Damn I was hoping for default judgement.
Never mind, might be time for a wee chat with Mr Jeremiah...
The defence entered by Barclays:
Defence
1. The Particulars of Claim do not provide details or particulars of the account (they do) in question and/or the precise charges (I stated dates range of dates so they know exactly what charges!) alleged to have been unlawful, or the date thereof. Notwithstanding the Claimant’s failure to correctly identify and particularise an account held with the Defendant (untrue), it is admitted that the Claimant has an account, number xxxxxxxx, sort code xx-xx-xx. However, to the extent it is alleged that the Claimant incurred bank charges on his account for unauthorised borrowings (whether unpaid fees for returned cheques, “Paid referral fees” or any other such fees), the Defendant puts the Claimant to strict proof of each charge and the date thereof.
2. The Defendant was entitled to charge the Claimant for unauthorised borrowings by the reason of its standard terms and conditions. The Claimant accepted the same when the account was opened, including (in particular but without limitation) the following terms and conditions (which are summarised):
a. The Defendant’s right to charge a “Paid Referral Fee” where the Defendant pays an amount (by either compulsion or election) which causes the account to become overdrawn - £30 per item (previously £25)
b. The Defendant’s entitlement, if the Claimant becomes overdrawn without an overdraft limit, to charge interest at the unauthorised borrowing rate on the excess balance.
3. The Defendant’s standard terms and conditions gave the Claimant a fair and transparent view of those terms and the charges applicable for unauthorised borrowings (including where the account is overdrawn without an overdraft limit or where the Claimant exceeds his authorised overdraft limit).
4. I f and to the extent it is the Claimant’s case that the failure to make necessary payments and/or failure to remain within authorised overdraft limits and/or failure to arrange an authorised overdraft constituted a breach of the terms applying to the account and that the contractual entitlement to debit charges from the Claimant’s account constitutes a liquidated damages clause, the same is denied. The charges constitute payments the Claimant agreed to make by reason of the terms and conditions of his account and were consideration for the defendant advancing credit to the Claimant, which the Defendant was under no obligation to advance. The Defendant was entitled to impose such charges and interest when the Claimant incurred the overdraft.
5. Accordingly, it is denied that the legal principles relating to liquidated damages clauses and penalty charges are relevant or applicable to the facts set out above. Further or alternatively it is denied that any such charges constitute unlawful penalty charges or are in breach of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (particularly but without limitation to, paragraph 1(e) of Schedule 2), or are in breach of s.4 of the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977 (or any other provision), or are unreasonable within the meaning of s.15 of the Supply of Goods and services At 1982 (or indeed any other provision).
6. Therefore, it is denied that the charges were unlawfully debited from the account.
7. If and to the extent the claimant incurred charges on his account, this was caused by the claimant having gone into overdraft without having agreed with the Defendant an authorised overdraft facility and/or to increase the overdraft facility and/or his failure o make payments to bring the balance of the account back into credit.
8. It is averred that the said charges and interest are and remain lawful and enforceable and that the Defendant was entitled to debit the same.
9. The Defendant denies that it is liable to the Claimant dor the sums claimed and interest as pleaded by the Claimant or at all.

CrispDust · 19th June 2006, 21:03

*BUMP*
Barclays defence added.

CrispDust · 22nd June 2006, 23:01

Is it the forums' opinion, or those in the know, that it is best to wait for a definite court date before contact Mr Jeremiah for an "amicable settlement"?
If so why? I note some have contacted KJ before returning the AQ.

Here is a copy of email I intend sending to KJ. Constructive criticism, suggestions and comments would be most welcome.

Without Prejudice:
Mr K Jeremiah,
Legal Executive,
Litigation and Disputes,
Level 29
1 Churchill Place,
London E14 5HP

Thursday, 22 June 2006

Dear Sir,

Re: County Court case number xyzabc, xxxxxxx -v- Barclays Bank Plc.

I am writing to you today in the hope that you might be able to offer a settlement on the outstanding case as stated above.

I am certain that, given the considerable number of similar claims for return of penalties, you are an extremely busy man at present, with a significant caseload.

But, with reference to my particular claim, I have studied your defence, dated 15 June 2006, as enclosed with the MCOL court papers dated 16th June 2006. It would appear that your defence is very similar to the multitude of defences offered in support of those other cases mentioned above, suggesting a stock reply rather than a defence to the particular case. Indeed almost every paragraph of your defence contains a factual error in relation to my claim. The activity of current and successful claimants, including defence received, is the subject of close scrutiny on 'the consumer action group' website.

I understand that to date, none of said claims have actually reached court. Whilst a County Court judgement cannot set precedent and each case is judged on its own individual merits, I cannot help but think that the likely decision on judgement may leave Barclays Bank Plc open to a multitude of further, successful claims.

I note that in respect of one claim, a Judge has even made the following comment in response to the returned Allocation Questionnaire:
"It is difficult to see how the Defendant, absent any witness evidence, could show reasonableness of charges or details of its costs. Surely there will be a witness. This has a bearing on the time estimate for the case."
This gives me, and my fellow claimants, more confidence in our eventual settlement.

I have included a table the current amount claimed, including court fees and interest to date. I have also included a sum of £80.00 for the time taken to prepare my case for court proceedings should it come to that. This is a figure which I am sure the Court would allow following favourable judgement.
I do hope that this matter can be resolved amicably and without further delay, thus avoiding the disagreeable but necessary court attendance.
However I would like to make it clear that I am fully prepared, with the assistance of the 'consumer action group's' support, to proceed to court should the need arise.

I look forward to your response, either to the above address, by email or on the above telephone number.

Yours Sincerely,

mahala · 22nd June 2006, 23:37

This letter makes me uneasy, for a number of reasons.

Although I have no doubt that the banks read these forums, I'm not sure that it's a good idea to mention what happens here so openly in a letter. these are intial thoughts, so I've not really got an explanation as to why, just gut feeling.

I'm not sure it's appropriate to use information you've gleaned about other claims in your letter - at least where it applies specifically to one claim. It may be that the information ought not to have been shared or was "without prejudice" - again, thinking on my feet here, but I wonder what effect it may have on that person's claim.

There are other bits too, but I need to have another read through. But my instinct is that it's not a great idea to send this.

caro · 22nd June 2006, 23:38

I am not a legal expert so all I can offer is my own opinion which it is up to you whether you choose to follow my advice or not.

I would not contact them at all in this way. I think that you could seriously jeopardise your case if you do this. You have presumably sent a prelim letter and an LBA and they have not paid up. You are now taking them to court, and I do not think that you should pre-empt the case. If they want to contact you and offer to settle (which I believe that they probably will) that is one matter, but I strongly urge you to leave it to the court to settle now. You have put it in their hands so let them do their job now. I will ask another mod to look at your post and advise, but I really think you should not send this.

Also mentioning the forum is not a good idea as the banks cannot use this site without Bankfodders express permission.

Movingon · 22nd June 2006, 23:42

I'm not entirely comfortable with using the CAG name as if it were some official body; we're a bunch of people who have been herded into a circle and are talking to each other; not a body set up to examine abuses of the court system.

There are real issues with talking about court cases before they become public - i.e. in the court room. Prior to the court room I'm pretty convinced that manouvreings and so on are not in the public domain - which would include their defence. It's natural that with so many cases coming to court which are broadly similar in nature, the defence is going to be similar if not identical in many of them.

I am not really convinced that the way you couch your letter will do your own claim any favours, nor will it do Dave and BF any favours by giving excessive unwanted exposure to the way things work around here.

Seminole · 22nd June 2006, 23:50

I agree that you don't need to send this letter. If the bank wants to make an offer of settlement, then it will do so without prompting. They are probably quite aware that you will settle for the full amount of your claim plus costs. You only need to point this out to them when they offer you a percentage.

I would also be wary of using terms like "with the consumer action group's support". If you have used our templates then the bank will know where you got them from. CAG helps individuals to help themselves. It is not and should not be implied to be party to any litigation against a bank. I'm sure that this wasn't your intention but that sentence could be misinterpreted.

CrispDust · 23rd June 2006, 00:07

Thanks for the prompt replies folks. I thought it would be a good idea to post before sending. I understand, appreciate your comments on mention of CAG and will certainly remove these, in addition to specific case comments.

Many people seem to have contacted KJ before any court hearing, with a result. It is my understanding that I have an implied obligation (as does Barclays) to try to resolve the dispute before it gets to court.
If this can be demonstrated by this email (removing the without prejudice), should it ever get to court, then surely this would be looked upon favourable by the Court?
Indeed defendants’ legal reps will often intimidate a claimant by "threatening" to disclose to the court the Claimants (rightful) choice not to cooperate.
I am not advocating such intimidatory tactics, just voicing my own experiences (n non related Small Claims), its just my gut feeling is that I as the Claimant have given the defendant every possible opportunity to settle before court appearance. Surely that is best practice?

mahala · 23rd June 2006, 00:12

I understand that people have phoned KJ and agreed settlement, but I'm not sure he would appreciate having that conversation in writing, as it were. The thread that discussed this did state several times that anyone attempting this should tread very carefully. This letter, to me, feels less like treading carefully than getting out the size 15s and stomping all over it.

I'd think very carefully before putting this apporach in writing.

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