Maxine V Barclaycard. **WON**

maxine989 · 25th November 2006, 14:07

Hi there

This site has been such a huge halp so far.

Thanks people. Reading other peoples claims as they progress is very reassuring and offers great support advice.

Now I need to ask for a bit of direct help/advice....

This is where I am at the moment with Barclaycard:
17.11.06 Sent Data Protection letter
22.11.06 received std complaints letter w leaflets etc
25.11.06 Received Terms & Conditions letter with details stating that satements prior to 2004 will be charged at an extra £3.00 each.

I assume their next move is where they bring in this Microfiche thing, where they reckon they cannot access the data required....

... so, I am about to send a prilim letter with an estimated schedule of charges. I have started the claim from June 2001 when their pricing policy begun. I know their late pament fee was £15 up until mid 2002 when it changed to £20. I don't know how much over limit fees were during earlier periods, but know they were £20 up until not so long back. Now I think they have put them down to the recommended £12.

This is what I am unsure of (any comments/help/advice glady welcomed):

1. Barclaycards pricing of fees from mid 2002 until now.

2. I can't find a suitable prelim template aimed at card companies when making an estimated claim. I looked at the bank one and there's lots of text that needs editing. I need one relating to cards.

I know I could write one myself, but it would take me a lot of time to find out all of the relevant jargon and I am already trying to juggle sorting this lot out, with keeping my two little ones occupied and a hungry man - who is busy working on the house - to feed... (and you know how men can get without food, so I need to keep my hubby happy..ha!)

3. Estimated fees??? I am unsure of how much to estimate. I don't want to estimate too much to find I blow my chances, and also i don't want to do myself out of a few hundred quid by estimating too low.

During the past 6 years (the time we are able to claim for unlawful charges), the charges mounted up while I completed my last few years at uni, begun working as a Newly Qulified Teacher, had a baby and maternity leave, gone back to work part time, had another baby.. left work, become freelance working at an Advanced Art Centre... struggle..work work..

(up for air...)

SO, my point being that I estimate that I have paid a great deal of hard earned dollar over to Barclaycard in charges over the years. I have constantly been bombarded with charges when I was at my most vunerable.

I am now going to begin constructing a prilim letter... Any help along the way would be much appreciated... and as I go on with my claim against Barclaycard, I will keep you informed.

Thanks for reading, Maxine

maxine989 · 25th November 2006, 14:26

Do I still pay the £10 to access statements from May 2004 onwards, or just estimate the whole amount being as Barclays wont release the data as a whole lot??? Any ideas anyone??

maxine989 · 4th December 2006, 22:34

A quick update.

I sent prelim, with a schedule of estimated charges, on the Wednesday 29th Novemember.

Monday the 1st Dec received the standard complaints letter (again), with the information leaflet eclosed.

At least I know that my prelim letter has got there... so now I am just waiting for their response. I assume I will get a letter telling me that their charges are not unlawful blar blar... then I shall send the LBA.

bobinramsey · 6th December 2006, 06:51

Hi maxine,
1. Barclaycards pricing of fees from mid 2002 until now.
According to my statements late payment in July 2002 was £15.00 and late payment in Oct 2002 was £20.00. I didn't get charged in Aug/Sep so I can't say which month it went up.
I would also be wary of estimating charges because they will be saking for a schedule of charges and Proof of those charges in their defence.
If you check out some microfich threads, there should be some more help for you. I am a bit of a hoarder so I already had all my statements to hand.
All the best
Bob

maxine989 · 6th December 2006, 10:37

Thanks for that Bob.

I am hoping that by estimating the figures (I have included a scedule too, all made up though), Barclays will then be forced to send me me the data I need. I have estimated high with the hope that they will reveal the true figures to me. I have a Visa and Mastercard with Barclays, so the total estimated figure was for the two accounts.

I wish I had kept my statements now. I kept them until I moved house in 2003, then I shredded the lot. I didn't think I would ever need them. Never mind... I am sure I will get the data I need eventually, it just might drag on a bit.

bobinramsey · 8th December 2006, 08:04

It might be worth looking in places like this....

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ght=microfiche.

Hopefully the link will work, but if not there is a search button at the top of the main page and a search for "Microfiche" should keep you busy for a few days. I'm think that when you go to court the onus of proof is on you as the plaintif, not Barclays, to prove what they owe you, that means dates, amounts and why it was paid, with PROOF. They don't need to prove anything.

stan5131 · 21st December 2006, 17:35

Maxine, I sent a LBA letter for my son for his estimated Barclaycard charges. Yesterday I recieved and offer of £259.00 offer of good will blah blah. I've estimated nearly £700 so am about to issue MCOL. Where are you at now?

bobinramsey · 22nd December 2006, 09:29

Hi Maxine and Stansfield Merry Christmas,
I think you should settle down for the long haul. I sent all the letters inc LBA. Then made a claim, which Barclays (Barclaycard) defended. Then we both filled in and returned Allocation Questionaires. Then we had a court date set (17 Jan) and an instruction to send court bundle and skeleton argument into court and other side by 20 Dec. I telephoned Barclays customer services and after a bit of to-ing and fro-ing they agreed to settle in full. I don't think there is a hope in hell of a settlement with Barclays until quite late on in the proceedings. They are playing a numbers game, so stick at it and you WILL win. There are lots of sample letters on the site for you to use. When they made their first offer in response to the LBA it found out from the statements that they had already credited the money into my Barclaycard account, so I just took that amount off of the subsequent claim.

maxine989 · 22nd December 2006, 11:34

Hi...

I haven't heard a peep from Barclaycard regarding my Prelim since the standard complaints leaflet and letter.

I am just wrting out the LBA to send to Barclaycard today with a schedule of estimated charges. I am feeling a littla anxious about this because of the estimated charges. If I have to file an N1 in 14 days, how can I proove that they have charged me with no statements...?

stan5131 · 23rd December 2006, 13:15

The point is, they are refusing to send you statements so your argument in court is that this is the reason you have had to estimate the charges. The judge will take a dim view of this. It is now up to them to show that your estimate is incorrect. Other people have gone down this route and had full settlement. Dont worry.

maxine989 · 23rd December 2006, 14:31

Thanks for that Stan.

The LBA was sent off yesterday... will have to wait 14 days now before the next step (N1). Does anyone know if I can claim the contractual interest everyone seems to be talking about? If so, I assume it's instead of the 8%, and how would I know how was the contractual % rate was?

Sorry to sound thick... I have read the fAQ's too, it's all still a little unclear.

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE

TANZARELLI · 26th December 2006, 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxine989

Thanks for that Stan.

The LBA was sent off yesterday... will have to wait 14 days now before the next step (N1). Does anyone know if I can claim the contractual interest everyone seems to be talking about? If so, I assume it's instead of the 8%, and how would I know how was the contractual % rate was?

Sorry to sound thick... I have read the fAQ's too, it's all still a little unclear.

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE

I think Barclaycards rate varies and depends on the type of card you had with them, for example I had a card with them which had an apr rate of 27.9% so when I receive my statements from them I will be using this. I am not 100% clear on this process so will be posting and discussing it further so that I know what my arguments will be when toey submit their defence. The contractual rate is as you said instead of the 8%, I believe, however I think what people are suggesting is that you claim the contractual rate and then also when completing the Particulars of Claim you state that you will be claiming the stautory 8% in the alternative. This means that you state the contractual rate and that you also claim in the alternative the statutory rate at 8%. This means basically that if the judge was not happy with your claiming the Contractual Rate you have covered you bases to claim stautory interest.

Hope this makes sense. Bill-K is a useful person to discus this issue with if you need some more info.

HTH

Tanz

maxine989 · 15th March 2007, 11:48

Hi An update. I haven't added anything for ages.

I abandoned the estimated claim after reading lots and lots about it. Even though I had issued an LBA in December, I didn't feel confident in taking Barclaycard to court on estimated charges.

So... I wrote them an LBA requesting my statements...

This is the letter I sent them:

Barclaycard
PO Box 559
Manchester
M60 3NF

26th January 2007

LETTER BEFORE ACTION
Section 7 – Data Protection Act 1998

Dear Sir/Madam

ACCOUNT NUMBER: **** **** **** ****
ACCOUNT NUMBER: **** **** **** ****

You have failed to comply with my Data Protection Act Subject Access Request dated 17th November 2006.

I have sent a complaint to the Information Commissioner and you should receive some correspondence from them shortly.

If you do not comply within the next 7 days I shall seek a Court order obliging you to do so together with damages at the discretion of the Court and without any further notice.

Yours faithfully

maxine989

Obviously they did not respond... so I went ahead and filed the N1 with my particulars... This is what I put:

PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

1. The Defendant is a Data Controller within the meaning of the Data Protection Act and is responsible for the processing of data of which the Claimant is a Subject.

2. The Claimant has account(s) numbers **** **** **** **** & **** **** **** **** (Mastercard & Visa) with the Defendant which was opened on or around 1998.

3. On 17th November 2006 the Claimant sent a Subject Access Request, pursuant to Section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to the Defendant.

4. The Defendant has failed to comply.

5. By virtue of the Defendant's failure to comply with the Subject Access Request the Claimant has suffered damage

6. The damage caused is:

Extra costs incurred in addition to court costs, due to the Defendants failure to comply - this includes the cost of additional correspondence, numerous phone calls and time spent preparing documents and seeking legal advice, I estimate this cost to be £150.00

7. The Claimant seeks an order that the Defendant do comply with the Claimant's Subject Access Request

8. Under the terms of Section 15(2) of the Data Protection Act 1998, where the Defendant contests that information requested under the Claimant's Subject Access Request is not included within the scope of Section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998, the Claimant requests that the Court inspects that information, and where it finds that the Defendant's opinion is unfounded, that it orders such information be included within the information supplied to the Claimant under the Subject Access Request.

9. Damages and costs within the discretion of the Court.

I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true

Signed:

Date:

I have since been told that I should have estimated less for the damages... but I didn't realise at the time... and it's too late now...

So... today I have recieved a defence, which is mostly Bu****it!! They have stated they they have 'supplied copies of statements from may 04 onwards'...which they have not and then they go on to say that the 'defendant advised the claimant that a charge of £3.oo was required for each statement due to such statements not being held in a relevant structured filing system'...I wrote to the Information Commissioner Office and got a response, much like everyone else's.

This is sooooo frustrating... it's taking so long to get my statements and now it looks as though it is going to take even longer!! I though filing at court might make them jump to action and send them out, but obviously not...

Any adice n next stage welcome?

Also could a mod change my title please, as I am not at the prelim stage anymore...? thanks.

ajjars · 15th March 2007, 13:17

Hi Maxine,

My O/H is awaiting his statements from Barclaycard. They had until 6th March to comply. I have written to them (I do all the letters - he signs them!) stating that he will be complaining to all the relevant authorities etc, but still nothing. I did start a claim by way of a pre-lim to try and speed things up but it hasn't worked.

So now my intention when the LBA is due is to claim for £5000 worth of charges (It is no-where near that amount) and tell them if we are wrong then it will be up to them to come up with the correct amount, being as they haven't complied with the Subject Access Request. If we have to file at court with that amount, then he can explain to the judge that he wasn't in receipt of the correct information at the time of filing due to their non compliance ........ They will either have to come up with the correct figure or pay the £5000 (which they won't do!) What do you reckon?

maxine989 · 15th March 2007, 14:59

Hi ajjars...

That was my exact way of thinking a few months ago. I too estimated high and thought that they would give me the statements rather than go to court for a higher amount... but then I started learning more about the court system and found that going to court on estimated charges could be quite shaky as you would not be able to prove that they owe you this 'estimated' figure or in fact that they owed you anything at all... and so I went down the route of taking them to court for not providing me with the statements instead.

I did get a partial refund from Barclaycard after sending them an LBA requesting a refund... although I have no idea what the figures are based on.

If I were you I would do some reading about estimated charges... some members have won going down this route... so I am not saying you shouldn't continue to court... you just need to know the in's and out's and where you would stand if it got to the 'judge' stage.

Maxine

paulpb123 · 15th March 2007, 17:56

Hi Maxine an Ajjar,
While I wouldn't necessarily recommend going down the 'estimate' route I did follow that course of action. My thinking was as follows. They refused to comply with my Subject Access Request, which is unlawful. So I had no choice but to put in an estimated claim, in good faith, and based on the statements that they did supply. I took the year with the highest number of charges X6. Barclaysharks don't like to go to court (common knowledge) so they are going to be even less likely to if it involves explaining to a District Judge why they broke the law and forced me to make an estimate. I do have my statements now and I've worked out that they ended up paying over £2,000 too much. Nearly all the charges were on the post 2004 statements. So, while you might be nervous about doing an estimate, I do think that you would have a perfectly good case to do so. It worried me a little, but when you think about it, they don't have a leg to stand on. When they send the microfiche letter, why shouldn't you take that as their final answer? You then have no choice but to estimate your claim. I can't see that a judge would find in their favour when they've deliberately been obstructive and broken the law. Anyway, that's what I did and it worked for me.
All the best,
Paul

maxine989 · 15th March 2007, 18:05

So you won before court paul?

ajjars · 15th March 2007, 18:09

Hi Guys,

When you estimate charges who is the onus on for proving them? isn't it up to the defence to defend them, thus proving they are wrong? I could prove they owe something to me (hubby) as I would have the statements already in my possession to prove this. But any claim would include their non compliance and would be our defence to any counter claim that the charges are too high. Just trying to get my head round this!!

Cheers.

maxine989 · 15th March 2007, 18:12

I have written to Barclays's legal dept... hoping to get a move on with getting me the statement:

Ref: Maxine989 -v- Barclays Bank PLC
Claim Number: ********

Dear Mr Ruffhead

Thank you for your letter dated 13th March and attached Defence of the Defendant.

I would like to raise the following points with you if I may.

• In section 4 of the defence it states that the ‘Defendant supplied copies of statements from May 2004 onwards’.

I would like to bring it to your attention that I have in-fact received no copy statements whatsoever from Barclaycard. Not any from May 2004 onwards or any statements prior to this date.

• Additionally in section 4 it is stated that ‘for statements dated prior to May 2004, the Defendant advised the Claimant that a charge of £3.00 was required for each statement due to such statements not being held in a relevant structured system, within the meaning of the Data Protection Act 1998’.

I would like to inform you that on the 14th February 2007 I received a response letter from the Information Commissioner’s Office after I wrote and complained about Barclaycard. The letter was quite lengthy and provided me with detailed information in connection with my complaint. Within the letter it stated the following:

‘Following your complaint and others like it we contacted Barclaycard for a detailed explanation of its microfiche system, including how the information in it is stored and retrieved. It was not clear from the response whether or not the system was a relevant filing system; therefore Barclaycard invited me and a number of my colleagues to inspect it and see the system in operation.

Following our visit, we concluded that the microfiche system used by Barclaycard is a relevant filing system for the purposes of the Act. This means that in our view the information is personal data and should have been supplied as part of your Subject Access Request within 40 days and for a maximum fee of £10. As a result, it is our view that it is likely Barclaycard has contravened the sixth data protection principle, as this requires data controllers to process personal data in accordance with data subjects' rights.’

In addition, section 13 of the Act gives individuals the right to claim compensation if they have suffered damage as a result of a contravention of the Act.

Casework and Advice Officer
Information Commissioner’s Office

I have spent a great deal of time calling Barclaycard, constructing and sending letters and researching my rights concerning this matter. I am dumbfounded as to why Barclays cannot provide me with the information I have requested and why Barclays persist to defend the matter considering that it is likely that Barclaycard will lose this case before a judge.

I am very confident in my argument regarding this case and have many detailed documents that will support me during the case before a judge.

As a gesture of goodwill I am prepared to inform the court that the case has been settled if Barclays provide me with the information I have requested along with the court costs of £30.00. If you do not wish to comply with this suggestion, then I will pursue this matter through the courts where upon a hearing Barclays will be liable to comply and will be forced to pay out further costs including damages of £150.00 and the Allocation Questionnaire fee of £100.00.

It is in your interest to comply by providing me with the data I originally requested on the 17th November 2006, so as not to incur any more costs.

I trust this clarifies my position and I will look forward to a response from you regarding this matter.

Yours Sincerely,

maxine989

I sent it recorded delivery... I hope it does the trick because this seems to be dragging on for ages.

All I want is my statements...

Oh how I wish I kept them... aaarrrggghhh!!!!!

paulpb123 · 15th March 2007, 18:30

Maxine,
They agreed to settle the full amount of the claim at 6:15 pm on Monday evening. The hearing was set for 10:30 am Tuesday morning. Their litigation dpt even said "we don't want to go to court over this matter". The actual amount they owed was about £500. They ended up paying me £2,705.02! That's how much they don't want to defend their scandalous charges and unlawful activites.

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