Woolwich - Charges and default

[Yasmin]

Thanx for your replies. Will await your advice then B.F. before proceeding with anything further. I did state in original letter that if at any time they wished to settle out of court, would only consider if entry from credit file removed.........

[BankFodder]

Originally Posted by Dave

Why is this so important to them?

I'm tryng to work that one out in my own mind.
i suppose that ne needs to undersatnd the mechanics of the Equifax/Experian system and how it came about.
I have a feeling that it was a system which may have been devised within the industry as a mutual protection scheme. Is it regulated? Was it set up by government? Who pays for it? Are Equifax and Experian independent?
These questions would be interesting enough to answer and those answers themsleves would lead to other good questions and a picture would emerge quite soon.

I'm sure that all of these little puzzles could be solved by an hour's work with Google.
Any takers?

I'm sure also that part of the solution is that by the use of their privilege of direct access to the credit register the banks are able to control a measure of compliance with their will. Whatever it is, you can be certain that it isn't pretty.

	Credit Report Click link to open in new window.

[simonjohn]

Annotation of bankfodders response.

I'm sure also that part of the solution is that by the use of their privilege of direct access to the credit register the banks are able to control a measure of compliance with their will. Whatever it is, you can be certain that it isn't pretty.

Yes, this is an interesting fact: and if I may let me pose the following questions.

Q1, The banks imply, that as part of your signed application, that you allow them to exchange information with the credit reference agency.

My response, can you provide an original copy of the signed agreement "That states as much" ?

Q2 If so does it comply with the consumer contracts regulations 1998

My response:

I ask this, in regards to any dispute under the banking regulations Sec 13.6 where you confirm that any account that is in dispute will not be registered with such an agency

Q3 If I have, by virtue a signed contract with yourselves, can you explain which remedies under law that i have to challenge such information that you exchange with a credit reference agency with regard to the conduct of such an account.

My response:

Where you can not provide such correbration as requested, Via a request for such an original signed agreement under the data protection act 1998 and the consumer credit act 1974 "Why you hold such Data without my consent" contrary to the 9 principles of processing such information.


In respect of default notices

1) How can a consumer challenge such a notice, if incurred through unlawfull bank charges, as the banks pay a subscription to the likes of experian and equifax, who claim to be only the data holders ?

And surely, as customers we have the right to object to any claims of our banks to register such information without our consent!!!

well we do and that is part of our original applications, but if the Banks can,not provide such original , signed agreements then the onus is on them to prove this as fact

	Bank Charges You should have started your claim for your bank charges by now. Don't wait. You should send your bank a Subject Acess Request asking for all personal data they hold on you - not just statements. You should calculate all of your bank charges and related interest as far back as 1995. You should send your bank a demand for a refund giving them 7 days. You should commence your legal action adding 8% statutory interest. If you wait for the outcome of the test case, you may not be able to claim like this. you may not be able to claim interest. You may only be offered the difference between the charge and the OFT "fair charge". The repayment scheme will try to limit you to refinds from 2001 only. A repayment scheme will not deal with any bank charges related defaults on the credit register whereas in a court action you can ask for these to be removed and to be compensated for the damage caused to you and your family by them. You should also write to the bank and to the CRA and put all charges related credit entries in disupte and warn them that you will want them removed from the Register when the test case is over. Warn them also that you are likely to be seeking compensation for these wrongful data entries. Full and final settlement Have you previously accepted a partial repayment of your bank charges in full settlement? You will still be able to claim the rest of your money back after the Test case is decided. Get all your information back to 1995 and put in your claim now.

	Credit Report Click link to open in new window.

[BankFodder]

Q1, The banks imply, that as part of your signed application, that you allow them to exchange information with the credit reference agency.

Amazing! Of course I have seen this so often but for some reason it has never clicked with me.
I think that this might provide an interesting and highly amusing solution to the problem.
If it is contractual term that the banks may enter your information onto the credit register, then it must also be a contractual term that the information which is entered will be accurate and justified.
This means that to fail to satisfy these condition would put the bank in breach of contract. If a person could show financial loss by the unjustified entry of a default then this would be a basis for suing on the contract and if the loss claimed was less than £5000 there is no reason why it should not be allocated to the Small Claims Track. The legal issues are exactly the same as for the recovery of unlawful charges, that is to say are the charges invalid for their disproportionality.

I really do think that this might be it. There is a basis for creating some real mischief here.
Thank you for your post. It could turn our to be extremely significant.

Watch this space

[simonjohn]

Originally Posted by BankFodder

Amazing! Of course I have seen this so often but for some reason it has never clicked with me.
I think that this might provide an interesting and highly amusing solution to the problem.
If it is contractual term that the banks may enter your information onto the credit register, then it must also be a contractual term that the information which is entered will be accurate and justified.
This means that to fail to satisfy these condition would put the bank in breach of contract. If a person could show financial loss by the unjustified entry of a default then this would be a basis for suing on the contract and if the loss claimed was less than £5000 there is no reason why it should not be allocated to the Small Claims Track. The legal issues are exactly the same as for the recovery of unlawful charges, that is to say are the charges invalid for their disproportionality.

I really do think that this might be it. There is a basis for creating some real mischief here.
Thank you for your post. It could turn our to be extremely significant.

Watch this space

And Iam sure that such a financial loss could be proved by way of Higher interest payments on such products as credit cards, morgatges loans, which if the negative info wasnt on your credit file you could get at a lower preferential rate

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

	Credit Report Click link to open in new window.

[BankFodder]

[quote]And Iam sure that such a financial loss could be proved by way of Higher interest payments on such products as credit cards, morgatges loans, which if the negative info wasnt on your credit file you could get at a lower preferential rate

Possibly but seems a bit indirect to me.
I would prefer something a bit more straightforward

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

	Credit Report Click link to open in new window.

[sportbeth]

Yasmin - the woolwich did this to me, said they would not remove the negative entry, however when I went to the credit reference agency involved and disputed the info online they had to remove it.

Alternatively you can lodge a complaint with the information commissioner and that should get it shifted.

[Yasmin]

Thanx for all information everyone. Sportbeth I pmd you...Still considering what action to take. Think the online dispute with credit ref. agency track???

[BankFodder]

Originally Posted by Yasmin

Thanx for all information everyone. Sportbeth I pmd you...Still considering what action to take. Think the online dispute with credit ref. agency track???

I'm losing the plot - of everything t the moment. Can you remind me - do they still owe you money?

[Yasmin]

No surprise there with all yor doin' they have recredited all recent charges applied, apparantly, must check online banking now. However will not remove the default. Feel sure there will be other charges on the account since it opened. Could persue them for these also, would have to order statements.

[BankFodder]

Get statements.

how would you describe the effect that the default has had on you and your life? Any specific incoveniences or losses?

[Yasmin]

Hi B F statements now ordered. In answer to your question, this default has had a severe effect on my life . As I explained earlier, without going into details, long term relationship ended on very bad terms. The stress of trying to sort out my financial affairs has proved relentless. I even started to pay theWoolwich back their charges , monthly. Then it occured to me, what the hell am I doing . That's when I took action initially and lodged a complaint. I was unaware of the default until recently, when I was refused credit. This has been so, so, time consuming at a time when I could have used a bit of help. I now find the same has happened with "Egg", they have refunded me one charge but are refusing to acknowledge the rest, plus removal of default. I will start another thread. So here I go again......should be spending more time on other things just now but so essential to clear my credit file.
Although they have not defaulted me, will also be claiming charges back from Capital One, Barclaycard, and storecard, in the near future

	Credit Report Click link to open in new window.

[Yasmin]

Copy of my letter below;








Data Protection Act disclosure request


Dear Madam
Customer Ref XXXXXXXXXX
Thank you for your recent letter and advice that you have arranged for the outstanding penalty charge of £313.12, to be recredited to my account.
I understand from your letter that I am now only able to open a classic account with yourselves, presumably due to the default which you have applied, after taking my account into debit by your penalty charges. I would prefer to keep my existing Open plan current account, and as my debit card has expired, perhaps you could order me a new one.
Furthermore, regarding the default notice, if this is not removed from my credit files further action will be taken.
Please also supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my account since it opened in 2003. Alternatively a complete set of bank statements for that period will be acceptable.
Additionally where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you.
If you are unable to supply data relating to the manual intervention because there has been no such manual intervention then please is kind as to confirm this is your response to this request.
You have 40 days in which to comply.

Yours faithfully




Received this reply 16/03




Customer ref XXXXX


Thank you for your letter dated 3 march 2006 and for taking the time and trouble to tell us about your dissatisfaction with our service. We work hard at the Woolwich to deliver a first class service to our customers and we are sorry that you feel let down on this occasion. You can be sure that we will do everything possible to put things right for you now, and so that we improvew our service in the future.

We would like to explain what happens next regarding your complaint, received on 07 March 2006. We have taken responsibility for fully investigating the issues you have raised, and we aim to resolve this matter by o4 April 2006. However, before we can process the information you have requested under the Data Protection Act we require the administration fee of £10.00. I would be grateful if you could send us the fee in the stamped addressed envelope. In the meantime, if you have any further information, queries or concerns, please contact us on 0845 0700 360.

May we assure you etc... etc...





Also contacted Experian, about 10 days ago, online dispute.... they are now in process of contacting the Woolwich.....




































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	Credit Report Click link to open in new window.

[Yasmin]

Sorry...Thread to this on page 3 can I join them tog.

[BankFodder]

Can you repost this on your orginal thread please.

[Yasmin]

Reply From Woolwich


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Author Message
Yasmin
Basic Account Customer


Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 16
Location: London
Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:40 am Post subject: Reply From Woolwich

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Copy of my letter below;








Data Protection Act disclosure request


Dear Madam
Customer Ref XXXXXXXXXX
Thank you for your recent letter and advice that you have arranged for the outstanding penalty charge of £313.12, to be recredited to my account.
I understand from your letter that I am now only able to open a classic account with yourselves, presumably due to the default which you have applied, after taking my account into debit by your penalty charges. I would prefer to keep my existing Open plan current account, and as my debit card has expired, perhaps you could order me a new one.
Furthermore, regarding the default notice, if this is not removed from my credit files further action will be taken.
Please also supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my account since it opened in 2003. Alternatively a complete set of bank statements for that period will be acceptable.
Additionally where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you.
If you are unable to supply data relating to the manual intervention because there has been no such manual intervention then please is kind as to confirm this is your response to this request.
You have 40 days in which to comply.

Yours faithfully




Received this reply 16/03




Customer ref XXXXX


Thank you for your letter dated 3 march 2006 and for taking the time and trouble to tell us about your dissatisfaction with our service. We work hard at the Woolwich to deliver a first class service to our customers and we are sorry that you feel let down on this occasion. You can be sure that we will do everything possible to put things right for you now, and so that we improvew our service in the future.

We would like to explain what happens next regarding your complaint, received on 07 March 2006. We have taken responsibility for fully investigating the issues you have raised, and we aim to resolve this matter by o4 April 2006. However, before we can process the information you have requested under the Data Protection Act we require the administration fee of £10.00. I would be grateful if you could send us the fee in the stamped addressed envelope. In the meantime, if you have any further information, queries or concerns, please contact us on 0845 0700 360.

May we assure you etc... etc...





Also contacted Experian, about 10 days ago, online dispute.... they are now in process of contacting the Woolwich.....

	Credit Report Click link to open in new window.

[BankFodder]

Send the money.

[Yasmin]

As I told you Experian were investigating the default. However have received letter from them saying that the woolwich have confirmed that the details they hold are accurate and have requested that they retain the information...so unfortunately they are unable to amend this. However I may add a notice of correction
Any ideas? should I wait to see the outcome of the investigation in early April, or take this a step further now. So infuriated that they won't remove this thus admitting they were wrong

	Credit Report Click link to open in new window.

[sportbeth]

I would certainly add a notice of correction if I were you, it might help in the future. I would also write a very strongly worded letter back to the woolwich stating that the default now stands as a defamatory information on your credit rating which is inaccurately reported.

My letter to them stated" As it is my belief that there was no requested overdraft facility from you for this amount and that the charges on this account represent penalty charges only for which you are trying to collect, I will also be holding you liable for any information you have disclosed about me to credit reference agencies and debt collection agencies and the resulting damage that this has done to my credit history. Such action is libellous and I understand that I am entitled to compensation for this"

I would also very strongly point out to them that any refusal on their part to remove the default that they have placed there in error will result in you reporting them to the Credit Licensing Authority, The OFT, the Information Commissioner and the BBA. Somewhere between the three of them you should be able to find someone to take your side.

Interestingly as well I would point out to them that in the Banking Code, which they openly subscribe to as they send it out to their customers, it states the following:-

Credit Reference Agencies
13.6 We may give information to Credit Reference Agencies about the Personal Debts you owe us if:-

You have fallen behind with your payments
The amount owed is not in dispute; and
You have not made proposals we are satisfied with for repaying the debt, following our formal demand

Surely the fact that the very debt is now in dispute means that the default cannot be registered, and if it had, it can be removed.

	The Banking Code Follow this link to read the Banking Code in full. Ofen ignored by its subscribers, half-heartedly monitored and poorly enforced

	Debt collection library Follow this link to our debt collection library. This library contains templates and advice for dealing with debt collectors who act oppressively or unfairly. This library is work in progress and will be built up over the next few weeks. 17.03.09

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

	Credit Report Click link to open in new window.

[BankFodder]

Yasmin, Where are you on this now. Do they owe you charges? Have you begun to claim? Have they defaulted you because of a debt which is comprised substantially of charges? How much is at stake? Sorry to ask you this. This thread is long and I haven't had time to go through it all to find the info.