Bookworm v Barclaycard ***she's only been and won it! :-D***

[Bookworm]

Right!

I've had it with them. I've run my cards religiously well for months now, then because of my venetian jaunt and the exchange rate, I skated too close to the edge, and the interest has put me £6.00 over, so I got a £20 charge.

I was going to leave them till close to last of all my targets, but not anymore. They've p!ssed me off one too many time, now it's payback. Literally.

More anon.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[Seminole]

The (book)worm has turned

[Bookworm]

Could I borrow the "groan" emoticon when you're done with it?

[Natasha]

Good for you bookworm, best wishes!!

PS. thats what i hate about barclays, if they add interest and that puts you over the limit they charge you!!
This is the only time i would commend capital one, but they wont charge you for going over your limit if they apply the interest charges.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[richardc]

They b****** well charged me! What's this? Sexism?

[Natasha]

Originally Posted by richardc

They b****** well charged me! What's this? Sexism?

Oh dear, woopps they dont charge me..... perhaps its because i've phoned them up every time and complained.
Although i'm not sure if they have charged me during the early years, i've been with them for over 5 years.

[Bookworm]

Well, what do you know. Got a big DHL delivery this morning. In it, a handful of copy statements going back to june 04, a huge bundle of computer printout, and a now familiar letter saying blah blah microfiche system...

Going through the printout, which is an account history, you could call it. It does not state the dates I was charged or amounts, but it shows that in the history of the account, there were x times of going over the limit, x times of late payments...

The way I see it, I can do the following: send prelim letter stating I estimate, based on the limited info they have given me, that they have charged me, say 40 times at £20 a time. (It's actually a lot more than that, and there's 2 cards, each charged too!)
Since I have no way of working out if charges were lower for any of those times, or if they refunded any of those at any time, I demand the refund of all at max price.
If they want to say some are statute barred, or the charge was £15 at the time, or they refunded me some of those charges, in my mind, they will have to go retrieve the info. They will then have to explain how come this info was not made available to me, when it clearly was to them.
Either way, I should be able to take it to the Information Commissioner.

Case scenario 1: They refund. Great, just a complaint to the Information Commissioner then, as I really want to nip that behaviour in the bud.
Case scenario 2: They refuse. Court claim ensues. I can estimate the amount again, making sure that it is known that I couldn't be more precise because of them. Problem is how to work out the 8% then? Average so many charges per year, at a monthly/3 monthly/6 monthly interval, to spread out an everage interest? Would that be an acceptable way of doing things?

This is actually a fairly big claim for me. At 1st glance, I've worked out it's nearly 3k of charges alone. The interest would be likely to push it over the 5k. However, as it's 2 separate cards, that might not be a problem.

Comments and thoughts very welcome, please.

	Statute barred In principle, a debt cannot be enforced after 6 years from the date upon which it became due. The 6 years runs from the last time that the debt was acknowledged in any way or from the last time that a payment was made towards the debt. Once a debt has lapsed, it cannot be revived - even through a subsequent acknowledgement or payment. The relevant law is contained within the Limitation Act 1980.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[kaznelson]

If Barclays havent supplied the actual charges applied to account and you have no way of finding this & you enter a estimate figure on your claim, Is it not up to Barclays to prove your information incorrect????

If they turn up in court rejecting the amount quoted, the Judge wont look lightly on this as you gave them the opportunity to supply this. As we all know the Courts favour it when we try and resolve any problems before hearing.

I would work out the interested on the estimated figures on a average charge per month. But try and make it seem fair. That keeps the Judges happy.

Wont it have to go to Fast Track if you go over £5k?

[Bookworm]

2 cards (1 visa, 1 Mastercard), 2 claims. I will work out the figures, if I can do it 1 claim, great, if not, then split it that way.

Thanks for your reply, it confirms my feeling.

[Spiceskull]

Good luck BW.

[Bookworm]

I do not need luck, I need JUSTICE!

Thanks anyway.

[Spiceskull]

Originally Posted by Bookworm

I do not need luck, I need JUSTICE!

You WANT justice...and I am sure you will get it, justice I also expect to get it!

[Bookworm]

Right, here goes:

Barclaycard
Barclaycard House
PO Box 5592
Northampton
NN4 1ZY

Saturday, 08 April 2006


Dear Sir/Madam,

ACCOUNT NUMBERS: xxxxx & xxxx

I note that following my Data Protection Act request, you sent me statements only going back as far as June 04, alongside a large computer printout containing some information about my account.

As I’m sure you are very aware, the reason for requesting the information was to ascertain the amount of unlawful charges applied to my account, prior to placing a request for refund. Unfortunately, due to your reluctance to actually supply me with the information requested, I have no alternative but to estimate the amount actually applied to my accounts over the years.

From the printout supplied, I can see that on the Mastercard account, there have been, as far as I can ascertain, 40 over the limit charges and 22 missed (late?) payment charges; On the Visa account, 45 over the limit charges and 27 missed payment charges; In total, 134 charges.
Since you have not supplied me with the dates at which these charges have been incurred, or how much was charged each time, I have no way of knowing precisely and have therefore decided to apply the current rate of £ 20.00 per penalty charge.

134 charges x £ 20.00 = £ 2 680.00, or £ 1 240.00 on Mastercard, £ 1 440.00 on Visa.

It is my opinion, and that of the Office of Fair Trading (OFT), that these charges are punitive in nature, not a genuine pre-estimate of cost and not intended to reimburse your losses for a breach of contract occurring. You will by now be aware that the OFT has further pronounced in their latest statement that any charge over £ 12.00 would be automatically deemed a penalty charge, as per English Law and the 1999 Consumer Credit Regulations, and the Unfair Contracts Terms Act 1977 which require that contract terms be reasonable.

Accordingly I request that you return to me the sum of £ 2 680.00 by way of personal cheque within 7 days of receipt of this letter. If you choose not to do so, I will start proceedings for recovery in the County Courts. If I have to start court proceedings, you will become liable for my court costs and for an extra 8% APR as permitted under the County Courts Act (1984).

I also reserve the right to make a formal complaint to the Information Commissioner for your failure to fully comply with my Data Protection Act request, as I do not believe that you could not supply the requested information if you’d wanted to, and that the microfiche issue is nothing but an attempt to circumvent the Act.

If I have to go to court, I will of course advise the Courts of the circumstances behind my estimated claim amount, which is your failure to supply me with the requested information when requested, even though the said information was requested under the Data Protection Act.

It may well be, of course, that the amount of £ 2 680.00 is incorrect, and I am quite happy to stand corrected on the amount, and to accept a lower repayment, as long as you can provide evidence of it.


Yours faithfully

Bookworm

[heppy23]

Originally Posted by Bookworm

Going through the printout, which is an account history, you could call it. It does not state the dates I was charged or amounts, but it shows that in the history of the account, there were x times of going over the limit, x times of late payments...

Whereabouts in the print out was that info? What was the page title?
If I can find that info in my I might put a speculative £30 per month claim in for the months I can?

[Don Quioxte]

annoying situation to be in Bookworm..

did you pay the £10 for Data Protection Act request? If so, Barclays are as you know required to submit full disclosure... it sounds to me like they haven't. Now if they are genuinely unable to furnish you with any more than a vague summary - I suggest that they are in clear breach of not simply the Data Protection Act, but also FSA regulations whereby they are required to maintain records for six years... therefore I would also consider adding to your prelim letter that you are considering reporting them to the Financial Ombudsman Service for failing to maintain accurate or complete records in accordance with FSA regulations - as this is clearly hampering your ability to pursue a claim and therefore warrants complaint to FOS...maybe worthwhile browsing the FOS/FSA website just to confirm this breach?

Anyway good luck...

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

[Spiceskull]

Originally Posted by Bookworm

Right, here goes:

Perfect - you should take up writing these letters for a living...I'm sure you'd be very busy indeed...good luck with this.

[Bookworm]

Originally Posted by ed cervantes

annoying situation to be in Bookworm..

did you pay the £10 for Data Protection Act request? If so, Barclays are as you know required to submit full disclosure... it sounds to me like they haven't. Now if they are genuinely unable to furnish you with any more than a vague summary - I suggest that they are in clear breach of not simply the Data Protection Act, but also FSA regulations whereby they are required to maintain records for six years... therefore I would also consider adding to your prelim letter that you are considering reporting them to the Financial Ombudsman Service for failing to maintain accurate or complete records in accordance with FSA regulations - as this is clearly hampering your ability to pursue a claim and therefore warrants complaint to FOS...maybe worthwhile browsing the FOS/FSA website just to confirm this breach?

Anyway good luck...

You see, Ed, the problem is that this is how Barclaycard have now tried to stop every Data Protection Act request in its tracks. They're saying the info beyond june 04 is stored by microfiche, which is not covered by the Act (that part is correct, it's not) and therefore don't have to supply it.

What I've done here is say: ok, then I estimate you owe me that much. Prove me wrong. Either way, they shoot themselves in the foot: either they pay up the higher amount (fine by me, ) or they give me the right amount, in which case, I'll be asking how come they didn't supply me with the right info in the 1st place, and go to the Information Commissioner with that.

I've done it this partly to try and stop them using that as an excuse to other people if I can.

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

[heppy23]

I think I will use your letter and have a "Punt" and let them correct it. If they correct it it proves to me they have easy access to information to which I am not privy and they will therefore be in trouble under the Data Protection Act.

[Don Quioxte]

Ya I agree with Heppy.. I mean they are going to HAVE to investigate your complaint/request for refund, then respond with their offer at some point.. (unlikely to be the £2K) but this will then give you opportunity to re-approach and say "how did you guys arrive at this figure" if they can prove it is based on actual fees/charges applied to account then good... If not see 'em in court when they will have to disclose..

Chances are they will offer to settle for an amount reasonably close the genuine figure prior to court date anyway?

[Bookworm]

I'd be happy for them to try to take it to court, and explain to the judge why they didn't disclose the accurate figure to me... Considering that both parties have a duty to try to reach an agreement without going to court, that would be peachy!