Moores2525 v BarclayCard **SETTLED IN FULL**

[moores2525]

Hi there,

I sent the standard Data Protection Act letter to Barclaycard on 11/04/06. I wrote:

"Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my bank account since September 1997. Alternatively a complete set of bank statements for that period will be acceptable.

Additionally where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you.

If you are unable to supply data relating to manual intervention because there has been no such manual intervention then please be kind as to confirm this in your response to this request.

I enclose the statutory fee of £5. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me then I shall be reclaiming them and also reclaiming the enclosed £5 Data Protection Act disclosure fee."


Sure enough, today I received my statements in a big brown envelope.....only going back to May 2004. They've cashed my £5 cheque though!


"Further to your request for personal data held by Barclaycard, please find enclosed a copy of the relevant information from May 2004.

Statements that are prior to this date are not held on a computer system or a structured relevant filing system and therefore, they do not fall under the Data Protection Act 1998. They can be obtained from our Customer Services Dept at a cost of £3 per statement."


Included in the package are printouts including details of number of late payments - 17 and number of second payments late - 3 and account status details relating back to 1997. What can I do from here in order to obtain the full statement details back six years or to 1997? I guess from the number of late payments, knowing the late payment fee (£20) I can calculate an estimated claim but should I do this or send another letter to Barclaycard demanding the rest of the statements?

thanks,
Stewart

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[jonni2bad]

Naughty naughty........

Use THIS template from the Abbey forum, and just change the wording from "because any earlier information has been archived onto microfiche" to something like "because this data is not held on a computer system"

If they still feel like avoiding the issue, wait until the 40th day and make an official complaint to the I.C's Office.

They are, in effect, just trying to put you off.

[moores2525]

Thanks Jonni, I've sent the letter to them and waiting for a reply...

[moores2525]

p.s. I'm also a Forest fan!

[jonni2bad]

Originally Posted by moores2525

p.s. I'm also a Forest fan!

Ahhh, so it's YOU - I've always wondered who the other one was !

[moores2525]

Hi All,

Around a month ago I sent a Data Protection Act request to BarclayCard using the standard Data Protection Act template and in return received a letter saying that they could only provide me with details from May 2004 due to Microfiche and enclosed was the now legendary 'Useless' computer printout.

The printout revealed on page 5 that I'd missing one payment x17, two payments x3 and three payments x2. (so 22 charges in total x£20? Or maybe more??)


I wrote back to them using the standard second letter telling them that I required full details on my account from 1997 and not just from May 2004, referred them to Smith vs Lloyds TSB (2005) and told them they had 26 days left to provide the details.

Today I received a further reply from BarclayCard, saying that they will not provide such details as not on a "relevant filing system" . They deny that other customers have received this data under Data Protection Act request and say I can pay £3 per statement to receive them.

The problem I have is how to proceed from here. I have the computer printout but it is not conclusive. I could do the following:

a) Use the computer printout to estimate the charges (22 x £20?) and send them the Letter Before Action at the end of the Data Protection Act period

b) Wait until the end of the Data Protection Act period and report them to Information Commissioner or raise an N1 with the County Court

c) Pay £3 per statement for copy statements and get the information I need to claim off them and then charge them for the statements Problem is that 6 years worth of statements will probably cost quite a bit......

d) Send them the Non-Data Protection Act Compliance letter at the end of the Data Protection Act period. (which I believe ends on 22/05)

Has anyone else experienced these issues and what do you think is the best way to proceed?

	County Court guidebook by Judge Patricia Pearl Follow this link to read the review of this excellent Small Claims Guidebook. This comprehensive and very accessible guide will take you through the process of suing or defending a claim. This guide will help you take control of your litigation and make you more confident about doing it yourself. Applies to England and Wales

	Small Claims kit by Lawpack Sue your bank as many times as you like with just one Small Claims kit by Lawpack. Follow this link to read the review. The kit contains everything you need: instruction manual, templates, examples, forms and a comprehensive CDRom. Applies to England and Wales

[rogerebaker]

Im at exactly the same stage. I think I will probably claim what I know and include a Data Protection Act non complience when it comes to moneyclaim and just go through the process again with the earlier charges if there are any.

Ive got 8 on the go at the moment so Im in no rush but interested to know what you decide.

[kaz]

Hi,

I am at the same stage also, What does anyone suggest we do here? I feel at a stand still with this mob.

Kaz

[coffindodger]

It would appear to me that if they can provide statements for £3 a copy then they can provide the same statements under the Data Protection Act.

I would wait the 40 days and report them to the Information Commissioner
Brian

[moores2525]

The latest news - I sent them the following letter:

LETTER BEFORE ACTION
Section 7 – Data Protection Act 1998

Dear Ms. Hilton,

ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXXXXXX

I am in receipt of the documents that you have supplied in response to my Data Protection Act information request dated 11 April 2006. The disclosure of personal data is incomplete in that at least the following documents are missing:

1) You have failed to provide a complete list of transactions and charges. All you have sent is a computer printout with no mention of dates at which charges had been applied, or how much were the individual charges.
2) You have provided no notes, or documents relating to instances of personal human intervention, nor confirmed that any did indeed take place at any time.

This is not an exhaustive list by any means, it is just an example of some of the information I am missing.

You have stated that statements prior to June 2004 are manually stored on microfiche and do not fall within the Data Subject Access provisions. Section 1 (1) of the Data Protection Act 1998 states:
"any set of information relating to individuals to the extent that, although the information is not processed by means of equipment operating automatically in response to instructions given for that purpose, the set is structured either by reference to the individual or to criteria relating to individuals, in such a way that specific information relating to a particular individual is readily accessible".
Furthermore, recent communication with the Information Commissioner’s office has brought further clarification:
“(…) if the information is filed by account number this information would be considered to form part of a relevant filing system as it would be similar to searching a computer data base for a specific account number.”

Since you have informed me that I can obtain additional copy statements from your Customer Services, there can be no doubt that the information IS readily accessible, IS filed in a relevant filing system, and therefore DOES fall within DSA provisions.

The time for compliance with my request has now expired. If you do not comply fully with my Subject Access Request within 7 days, I shall apply to the County Court for an order together with damages at the discretion of the court under s.7(9) Data Protection Act 1998.

Yours sincerely,

S Moore


************


and yesterday I received the following reply:



Dear Mr Moore

Data Protection Act 1998 - SUbject Access Request

Thank you for your recent letter dated 22 May 2006. With regard to your request that we provide a computer print out of transactions on your account to date we are unable to provide the information requested. Our computer systems do not permit us to print such historic data. Neither do our computer systems allow us to search for and identify individual charges applied to an account. It is therefore not possible to provide you with a print out of such charges. I would also add that Barclaycard did not introduce default charges on its accounts until mid-2001. The printout that has been provided to you contains the information that we currently have recorded relating to charges on your account.

As explained previously copy statements held prior to May 2004 are stored on microfiche. The statements copied onto the microfiche in date order and more than one customer statement may be held on an individual film of microfiche. These statements are not stored by reference to account number of customer name and are not "readily accessible" within the meaning of the Data Protection Act. These statements are therefore not retained in a relevant filing system and therefore do not fall within the class of documents to be produced pursuant to a subject access request.

Accordingly we are unable to disclose any further statement documentation to you pursuant to your request under the Data Protection Act. As previously advised you may contact the Customer Services team for copy statements. There is a standard charge of £3 per copy statement.

Barclaycard is not attempting to obstruct or delay you. We are however ensuring that all subject access requests made to Barclaycard are dealt with in the same way, whether or not they relate to default fees, so that all requests are processed fairly and properly. Barclaycard have made it clear to customers for many years that copy statements held on microfiche are not required to be produced pursuant to a subject access request.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you wish to discuss the above issues further.

Yours Sincerely

Simon Walker
Head of Data Protection & Legal Counsel

********************

From here I think I will report them to the Information Commissioner and raise a Moneyclaim based on the number of charges stated on the crap computer printout they sent me originally - something like 17 fees x £20 I guess? I'm not prepared to pay them £3 per statement for copy statements.

Can anyone give me any advise how to proceed please? Has anyone else received the same letter?

thanks,
Stewart

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[alanfromderby]

Originally Posted by moores2525

From here I think I will report them to the Information Commissioner and raise a Moneyclaim based on the number of charges stated on the crap computer printout they sent me originally -

Can anyone give me any advise how to proceed please? Has anyone else received the same letter?

thanks,
Stewart

A little confused with your comment asking advice as to how to proceed.

As you sent the Data Protection Act - Letter Before Action, then you have no choice but to proceed to a County Court claim. It is no point whatsoever threatening action, if you have no intention of carrying it through.

Incidentally, a CC action under the Data Protection Act cannot be done through moneyclaim - these claims have to be issued through the court.

	County Court guidebook by Judge Patricia Pearl Follow this link to read the review of this excellent Small Claims Guidebook. This comprehensive and very accessible guide will take you through the process of suing or defending a claim. This guide will help you take control of your litigation and make you more confident about doing it yourself. Applies to England and Wales

	Small Claims kit by Lawpack Sue your bank as many times as you like with just one Small Claims kit by Lawpack. Follow this link to read the review. The kit contains everything you need: instruction manual, templates, examples, forms and a comprehensive CDRom. Applies to England and Wales

[moores2525]

Fair point - N1 form it is then!

[marksteps]

So when you sent the Data Protection Act letter of you included £10... for which you got how many real statements and how much worth of crappy printouts?

Doing mine tomorrow...

[moores2525]

Yep I included £10 and got back around 30 pages of computer printout - of which one page contained a total of the number of payments I had missed once (17), the number of payments I had missed twice (3) and some other details. No specific dates or charge amounts though...

[brandedcentaur]

Following this thread with great interest as I have been throught the same rubbish (received insufficient statements - wrote back - received nonsense about microfilche).

Speaking for myself, I intend to smack these people (& any other banks that do not co-operate) with an N1. The court will see throught their little delaying ploy for what it is - AND that I have tried to be reasonable whereas THEY have dragged their heels at every step of the way!

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[Capt_Crackers]

I have also received incomplete statements from May 2004 only and the ubiquitous printout, and was glad to see mention of this "payments missed" section on it which I hadn't noticed on page 5 - handy! Thought it might need pointing out however that this section may not estimate your total charges, as Barclaycard also sting you with a seperate "Exceeded Limit" charge (£24) if your account balance goes over your credit limit (usually due to their charges of course!), which they have certainly whacked me with a fair number of times.

I've been unable to locate a figure for occurrences of this anywhere on this rambling printout, except for the number during the past 12 months on page 4 (3 times, personally) - anyone else found a total during account history for this?

[Capt_Crackers]

Aha! Found it!!

If any Barclaycard holders have been charged 'Exceeded Limit' fees and want to attempt to estimate the number using the garbled printout BC seem to be issuing as standard, I believe I may have found relating data for this on Page 23 onwards - "Credit Limit Details" - this section lists a number of "Account Status Codes" which would seem to reference occurrences of the account being suspended, and therefore some of these will be instances of the account being overlimit. It's not exactly specific, but as they're not willing to provide the proper information I requested then they'll just have to lump it!!

Anyway, hope this is of use to some of you.

[brandedcentaur]

Thanks for that - BUT, speaking personally, I am not even bothering to fall for their little game!

I believe a court will take the view of what a "reasonable person" would do. If I hand a judge their garbled gobbley gook of a print-out and ask him to explain it (RESPECTFULLY of course!) he is going to have NO luck at all! If a man as learned as a judge cannot decipher this nonsense - how is poor little old me supposed to read it??!

Nope, I am sending them an N1 informing the courts that they have not replied in a reasonable manner & also that their response was not complete. Let the s***s argue their case in court.

[lynzpower]

Ive just got the same thing through the door and Im bl**dy seething.

HOW DARE THEY CONTRAVENE THE LAW OF THIS LAND? Its my sodding data- give it to me you SCUM.

*deep breath*

So an N1 is me taking them to court under the Data Protection Act is it? Just to clarify? Sorry cant really think properly with all this red mist

[give_me_it_back]

This is fascinating reading, and makes a nice change to see a letter from Barclaycard that they actually WROTE rather than took from their 'automated response' pile. Wonder how much they'll charge for THAT letter!!

A query though... this 3.00 charge they ask for.. are they legally able to? Surely the 10.00 fee is the 'statutory maximum'..?