My Girlfriend vs Barclays - ::::::SETTLED IN FULL:::::::::

[jimmyharris80]

Here are copies of the letter sent to Barclays as well as the reply letter received from them offering full settlement of charges totalling 200 + interest.

Hope this is of assistance to anyone currently in dispute with Barclays. If you have any questions regarding the contents of these letters or anything else you feel I may be able to help with please PM me.

Regards
James

Letter sent to Barclays:

Head of Current Accounts
Barclays Bank Plc
72 St James Street
Burnley
BB11 1NH

Penalty & unfair charges request for refund for Miss R. Markham, sort code XX-XX-XX, account number XXXXXXX

Dear Sir/Madam,

I write with reference to my current account with you. Over the past few months, I have noticed a number of 25 charges being levied, allegedly connected with the costs involved in allowing transactions which have taken me over my overdraft limit, please see the attached table for a breakdown. I would like to express my objection to each of these charges, and ask for their reversal.

I am of the view that your charges represent a penalty and are therefore irrecoverable at common law. In the Scottish case of Castaneda and Others v. Clydebank Engineering and Shipbuilding Co., Ltd. (1904) 12 SLT 498 the House of Lords held that a contractual party can only recover damages for actual or liquidated losses incurred from a breach of contract. This is also the position in English law: Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd [1915] AC 79. Your charges do not reflect any actual or real loss, instead they appear to represent a lucrative profit-making scheme.

On a separate note, your charges appear to represent an unfair term of contract which is contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (SI. 1999/2083). My account falls within the ambit of Regulation 5 of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 as I am a consumer. Your charges constitute an unfair penalty under reference to paragraph 1(e) of schedule 2 of the said regulations:

Indicative and non-exhaustive list of terms which may be regarded as unfair - 1. Terms which have the object of effect of - (e) requiring any consumer who fails his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation.

On 26 July 2005 the OFT stated that 'a charge is likely to be disproportionately high if it is more than a court would be likely to award if the lender sued the cardholder for breach of contract'. Because your charges include a lucrative profit margin, in addition to actual loss, they are irrecoverable as an unfair term in contract.

The fact that these charges were applied has meant that even after additional funds were credited to the account which would normally have been sufficient, on some occasions the balance has remained overdrawn or otherwise insufficient. As a result, additional transactions have been processed when inadequate funds were available in my account, and additional charges applied. I believe the term vicious circle applies to this situation, and as such, it could constitute a clear breach of the Banking Code.

Regardless of the wording of the automated letters sent to me, these charges constitute a penalty charge, as the amounts bear no relation to the actual damages incurred by you. I have been advised to remind you that such penalty charges are legally unenforceable, even if a clause exists in the Terms and Conditions that authorises such a charge.

The charges have also worsened my already fragile financial status. I am on a fixed and limited income, and I am struggling to pay off debts. I hope that you will take note of my situation and provide a favourable resolution.

At a minimum, I now ask for the charges to be reversed, and for any debit interest accrued as a result of these charges to be re-credited to my account. If this does not occur within 14 days of the date of this letter, I will be forced to seek further action, which is likely to increase the costs you incur to settle this dispute.

Yours faithfully,





Miss R. Markham

Enc.

Reply letter from Barclays:

Dear Miss Markham

I refer to my letter 28 December 2005.

I am sorry you feel the Bank charges you have incurred are unfair and
represent a penalty. I note you are claiming a refund on 203.27 for
the period 11 August to 30 November 2005. In your correspondence you
have also outlined case law, which you say supports your view.
Needless to say, Barclays is aware of all the informaiton you have
drawn to our attention. I must inform you however, that we disagree
with your legal analysis.

When an account is opened with us, our customer is provided with a
copy on the T&C's relating to the use of their account including
details of our charges. This information clearly explains our
obligations to our customers, as well as their obligations to us. If
we make any changes to the T&C's we provide details of these to our
customes in line with the Banking Code. Details of or T&C's and
charging tariff can be obtained at any of our branches, or via our
internet site, www.barclays.co.uk.

Putting the above to one side, on this occasion and as a gesture of
goodwill, I confirm I am willing to refund your charges totalling
203.27. I have arranged for this sum to be credited direct to your
Current Account, number XXXXXXX.

May I take this opportunity to remind you that the best way to avoid
similar charges in the future is to keep your account within your
agreed overdraft limit. You have said that you are experiencing
financial difficulties and you may therefore wish to consider
contacting our Consumer Finance Department on 0845 3000442. They will
be able to offer you guidance and advice on your financial status.

If you wish to discuss this letter, or you feel there are further
issues I need to consider, please contact me on my direct telephone
number XXX XXXX XXXX. If you are dissatisfied with my proposal for
resolving your complaint you may ultimately be eligible to refer to
the Financial Ombudsman Service.

The leaflet sent with our letter dated 29th December 2005 explains
our complaints process and provides details regardning the Financial
Ombudsman Service.

In accordance with our standard practice unless I hear from you to
the contrary within eight weeks from the date of this letter, I shall
assume that your complaint is resolved and close my file.

Yours sincerely


Anita Hicks
Customer Relations Manager

	The Banking Code Follow this link to read the Banking Code in full. Ofen ignored by its subscribers, half-heartedly monitored and poorly enforced

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

	Bank Charges You should have started your claim for your bank charges by now. Don't wait. You should send your bank a Subject Acess Request asking for all personal data they hold on you - not just statements. You should calculate all of your bank charges and related interest as far back as 1995. You should send your bank a demand for a refund giving them 7 days. You should commence your legal action adding 8% statutory interest. If you wait for the outcome of the test case, you may not be able to claim like this. you may not be able to claim interest. You may only be offered the difference between the charge and the OFT "fair charge". The repayment scheme will try to limit you to refinds from 2001 only. A repayment scheme will not deal with any bank charges related defaults on the credit register whereas in a court action you can ask for these to be removed and to be compensated for the damage caused to you and your family by them. You should also write to the bank and to the CRA and put all charges related credit entries in disupte and warn them that you will want them removed from the Register when the test case is over. Warn them also that you are likely to be seeking compensation for these wrongful data entries. Full and final settlement Have you previously accepted a partial repayment of your bank charges in full settlement? You will still be able to claim the rest of your money back after the Test case is decided. Get all your information back to 1995 and put in your claim now.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[BankFodder]

Firstly, congratulations on getting your money back. Well done.

Secondly, the letter from Barlcays is very interesting because it is the first which I have seen from any bank which admits that they are aware of the law. Of course they do not go on to make any comment other than to say that they disagree with the legal implications - but they wouldsay that wouldn't they.
This letter from your bank is Barclays is useful because it makes it clear that Barclays is aware and I would recommend anyone else who brings a claim against Barclays to refer to the letter dated 28th December an dsigned by Anita Hicks, customer relations.

Is there any chance you could let us have the reference number in order to make it easier for them to find it - which will avoid them saying "Letter? What letter?"

Reply letter from Barclays:

ref: 000A2TE1
sent: 13th January 2006


Dear Miss Markham

I refer to my letter 28 December 2005.

I am sorry you feel the Bank charges you have incurred are unfair and
represent a penalty. I note you are claiming a refund on £203.27 for
the period 11 August to 30 November 2005. In your correspondence you
have also outlined case law, which you say supports your view.
Needless to say, Barclays is aware of all the informaiton you have
drawn to our attention. I must inform you however, that we disagree
with your legal analysis.

When an account is opened with us, our customer is provided with a
copy on the T&C's relating to the use of their account including
details of our charges. This information clearly explains our
obligations to our customers, as well as their obligations to us. If
we make any changes to the T&C's we provide details of these to our
customes in line with the Banking Code. Details of or T&C's and
charging tariff can be obtained at any of our branches, or via our
internet site, www.barclays.co.uk.

Putting the above to one side, on this occasion and as a gesture of
goodwill, I confirm I am willing to refund your charges totalling
£203.27. I have arranged for this sum to be credited direct to your
Current Account, number XXXXXXX.

May I take this opportunity to remind you that the best way to avoid
similar charges in the future is to keep your account within your
agreed overdraft limit. You have said that you are experiencing
financial difficulties and you may therefore wish to consider
contacting our Consumer Finance Department on 0845 3000442. They will
be able to offer you guidance and advice on your financial status.

If you wish to discuss this letter, or you feel there are further
issues I need to consider, please contact me on my direct telephone
number XXX XXXX XXXX. If you are dissatisfied with my proposal for
resolving your complaint you may ultimately be eligible to refer to
the Financial Ombudsman Service.

The leaflet sent with our letter dated 29th December 2005 explains
our complaints process and provides details regardning the Financial
Ombudsman Service.

In accordance with our standard practice unless I hear from you to
the contrary within eight weeks from the date of this letter, I shall
assume that your complaint is resolved and close my file.

Yours sincerely


Anita Hicks
Customer Relations Manager

Your letter is excellent. It got it all in including the the 1999 regs. You have already been congratualted on it in BankChargesHell and quite rightly.

How Barclay's can admit all of this law and yet cannot consider themselves sufficiently warned about the unlawful nature of their posiiton to at least warrant a diligent enquiry, beats me.

I think that a court might take notice of this letter even if the bank won't and I would include it in any list for disclosure.

Please, please can we have a reference number and also could we have a scan or a photocopy as this needs to go into the library.

	The Banking Code Follow this link to read the Banking Code in full. Ofen ignored by its subscribers, half-heartedly monitored and poorly enforced

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

	Bank Charges You should have started your claim for your bank charges by now. Don't wait. You should send your bank a Subject Acess Request asking for all personal data they hold on you - not just statements. You should calculate all of your bank charges and related interest as far back as 1995. You should send your bank a demand for a refund giving them 7 days. You should commence your legal action adding 8% statutory interest. If you wait for the outcome of the test case, you may not be able to claim like this. you may not be able to claim interest. You may only be offered the difference between the charge and the OFT "fair charge". The repayment scheme will try to limit you to refinds from 2001 only. A repayment scheme will not deal with any bank charges related defaults on the credit register whereas in a court action you can ask for these to be removed and to be compensated for the damage caused to you and your family by them. You should also write to the bank and to the CRA and put all charges related credit entries in disupte and warn them that you will want them removed from the Register when the test case is over. Warn them also that you are likely to be seeking compensation for these wrongful data entries. Full and final settlement Have you previously accepted a partial repayment of your bank charges in full settlement? You will still be able to claim the rest of your money back after the Test case is decided. Get all your information back to 1995 and put in your claim now.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[jimmyharris80]

BankFodder,

I've sent you a PM regarding this letter, I have no problems with photocopying it and sending it over. NO digital fax facility at work annoyingly!

For info...

Barclays Ref Number for the letter is: 000A2TE1
It was sent on 13th January 2006

If you need anything else please let me know.

[peterjames1999]

Extraordinary - this is a verbatim, cut-and-paste copy of the same letter I received from Anita Hicks back on 19 September last year. Identical, that is, apart from the bit about backing down over the charges. My penalty charges at that time were somewhere around £2,300 over 6 years, but I'd offered to settle for a lower figure and close my account. Not good enough for Ms Hicks, though, and I filed a claim against them just before Christmas, which they're now defending.

I wonder what the thinking is behind this - genuine goodwill? Do they think I'm going to be intimidated by court procedure and back down? Or are they genuinely so confident of their argument that they're risking (for the sake of 2 grand) a precendent that will potentially cost them tens of millions?

Good thinking on the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts regs. I'd been following a similar train of argument based in the charges being unconscionably high relative to costs incurred, and existing only to ensure compliance with the contract. Will absorb your argument as well. Where was that quote from the OFT from?

Congratulations on a result. I'll be posting my progress on here and over on bank charges hell as well.

Cheers!

	Bank Charges You should have started your claim for your bank charges by now. Don't wait. You should send your bank a Subject Acess Request asking for all personal data they hold on you - not just statements. You should calculate all of your bank charges and related interest as far back as 1995. You should send your bank a demand for a refund giving them 7 days. You should commence your legal action adding 8% statutory interest. If you wait for the outcome of the test case, you may not be able to claim like this. you may not be able to claim interest. You may only be offered the difference between the charge and the OFT "fair charge". The repayment scheme will try to limit you to refinds from 2001 only. A repayment scheme will not deal with any bank charges related defaults on the credit register whereas in a court action you can ask for these to be removed and to be compensated for the damage caused to you and your family by them. You should also write to the bank and to the CRA and put all charges related credit entries in disupte and warn them that you will want them removed from the Register when the test case is over. Warn them also that you are likely to be seeking compensation for these wrongful data entries. Full and final settlement Have you previously accepted a partial repayment of your bank charges in full settlement? You will still be able to claim the rest of your money back after the Test case is decided. Get all your information back to 1995 and put in your claim now.

[BankFodder]

PJ1999
Could we enter your details on the Litigation in Progress section?

Also, have they served a defence? What does it say? Any chance of a copy?

[Sara_douglass]

Am I allowed just to send Barclays a letter by myself or do I need to seek legal help first? Just found out about this today and I am a little confused. Also I am over my overdraft now will this affect my claim?

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[noomill060]

Hi Sara, welcome to the group. You first need to know how much they owe you in unlawful charges and interest charged.

To find this out, send them a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act 1998. A suitable template is provided fro you in the templates library.

Dont do anything until you know what you are doing though.

Read through as many threads as you can until you get a grasp of what this is all about.

	Materials library Follow this link to our library where you can use our templates and other references free of charge. You must be registered to use them - but registration is free.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[Sara_douglass]

Thanks for the advice, will do x

[Sara_douglass]

hello.

Continued with my claim, Barclays offered me less than half of the £305 they owe. I told them that i would not accept this and will be seeking the full£305 they said no again so I went through the court thing and they have to reply by 30th December. The thing is i am 170 over my overdraft limit at the min and have no steady income going in and the other day (after i filed for court) they sent me a letter i havent seen before telling me how my credit rating might suffer if i dont repay the money.

Is this manual intervention? as I did nt do anything about this before filing for court? have I messed it up?

really worried if anyone can help please do!!~

thanks

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.