Johny vs Barclaycard *Estimated charges*

[blazejohny]

I've been lurking from about November and decided to take the plunge.Here is my progress so far

1. Subject Access Request sent on 17 November and usual microfinche reply sent . statements from May 2004 sent and not from account opening as request. I prepared a schedule of charges and had to estimate about a 6 months or so. Total charges came to £323 including estimated charges.
2. Prelim sent out on 10th December. Reply from Carl Nuttal that they would "as gesture of goodwill" send out reminder of statements from Sept 2003. they also stated they hope to get back to me by 12/01/2007. Nothing received to date. My Subject Access Request has therefore expired.

3. LBA send 31/01/2006. No reply from barclaycard

I now want to start my MCOL but i can't find right wording for the particulars of claim. This is because of the estimate part of the claim. Any ideas how to word this? Feeling nervous at the moment in case the courts states i cant estimate. pliz help.

	Small Claims kit by Lawpack Sue your bank as many times as you like with just one Small Claims kit by Lawpack. Follow this link to read the review. The kit contains everything you need: instruction manual, templates, examples, forms and a comprehensive CDRom. Applies to England and Wales

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[blazejohny]

*Bump* *Bump*

[ajrz17]

I, like you, have estimated charges. I have sent my MCOL as if it was a real figure, which of course I can't prove because Barclaycard wont fulfill their Subject Access Request obligation, and indeed I warned Barclaycard in Prelim letter and LBA, that I have estimated pre 2004. So far, all is going to plan in terms of every other case I've read on this site. I received Barclaycards defence this morning and AQ, having read their defence its standard fare and the answer to AQ I have copied from this site counters their defence. Until Banks state what it costs them in real terms, they'll be defensive. That in reality is what we are claiming, for excessive costs, not what they actually owe us. Stay cool, until they actually take one of us to court, we're in the box seat.

	County Court guidebook by Judge Patricia Pearl Follow this link to read the review of this excellent Small Claims Guidebook. This comprehensive and very accessible guide will take you through the process of suing or defending a claim. This guide will help you take control of your litigation and make you more confident about doing it yourself. Applies to England and Wales

	Small Claims kit by Lawpack Sue your bank as many times as you like with just one Small Claims kit by Lawpack. Follow this link to read the review. The kit contains everything you need: instruction manual, templates, examples, forms and a comprehensive CDRom. Applies to England and Wales

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[maxine989]

Hi guys... I am at the same stage with Barclays and using estimated charges. The LBA was sent to them on the 5th of Jan.

This is what I said in the LBA regarding the estimated charges

As you have not been able to provide me with the data I requested, in my Data Protection letter dated the 17th November 2006, I have estimated that you have taken a total of £1,850 in charges from my accounts over the past 6 years. I have added 19.9% compounded contractual Interest from the date of each offence, giving a total £3690.77.

I am enclosing a copy of the schedule of the charges that I am claiming back from both my Visa and MasterCard account. Initial copies of these schedules from the preliminary stage were sent to you with my original letter of the 29th November 2006.

I require repayment in full of this estimated amount or, alternatively the data I initially requested with an accurate list of charges applied. If you do not comply fully within 14 days then I shall begin a claim against you for the full estimated amount of fees levied at county court, plus interest and my court costs and without further notice.

If I do not receive copy statements, in order for me to submit an accurate claim, I will be using the estimated figures quoted and shall report Barclaycard to the Information Commissioner for a breach of the Data Protection Act


Today I had a letter telling me that they had credited my account with £304, the difference between the charges that I have incurred and the £12 fee recommended by the OFT.... so they must know what the true figures are. It doesn't say if this is for my mastercard or visa account.

So... on Monday I am going to continue with the court proceedings using the estimated figures. On my particulars I will just use the word 'estimated' instead of 'calculated'.

	County Court guidebook by Judge Patricia Pearl Follow this link to read the review of this excellent Small Claims Guidebook. This comprehensive and very accessible guide will take you through the process of suing or defending a claim. This guide will help you take control of your litigation and make you more confident about doing it yourself. Applies to England and Wales

	Small Claims kit by Lawpack Sue your bank as many times as you like with just one Small Claims kit by Lawpack. Follow this link to read the review. The kit contains everything you need: instruction manual, templates, examples, forms and a comprehensive CDRom. Applies to England and Wales

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[blazejohny]

Originally Posted by maxine989

Hi guys... I am at the same stage with Barclays and using estimated charges. The LBA was sent to them on the 5th of Jan.

This is what I said in the LBA regarding the estimated charges

As you have not been able to provide me with the data I requested, in my Data Protection letter dated the 17th November 2006, I have estimated that you have taken a total of £1,850 in charges from my accounts over the past 6 years. I have added 19.9% compounded contractual Interest from the date of each offence, giving a total £3690.77.

I am enclosing a copy of the schedule of the charges that I am claiming back from both my Visa and MasterCard account. Initial copies of these schedules from the preliminary stage were sent to you with my original letter of the 29th November 2006.

I require repayment in full of this estimated amount or, alternatively the data I initially requested with an accurate list of charges applied. If you do not comply fully within 14 days then I shall begin a claim against you for the full estimated amount of fees levied at county court, plus interest and my court costs and without further notice.

If I do not receive copy statements, in order for me to submit an accurate claim, I will be using the estimated figures quoted and shall report Barclaycard to the Information Commissioner for a breach of the Data Protection Act


Today I had a letter telling me that they had credited my account with £304, the difference between the charges that I have incurred and the £12 fee recommended by the OFT.... so they must know what the true figures are. It doesn't say if this is for my mastercard or visa account.

So... on Monday I am going to continue with the court proceedings using the estimated figures. On my particulars I will just use the word 'estimated' instead of 'calculated'.

Thanks. I've issued a claim against Barclaycard via MCOL on 24/01/07 for estimated charges. Just received a notice of issue from Northampton County Court and defendant has until 12 february to reply. Any ideas what Barclaycard's next move will be?

	County Court guidebook by Judge Patricia Pearl Follow this link to read the review of this excellent Small Claims Guidebook. This comprehensive and very accessible guide will take you through the process of suing or defending a claim. This guide will help you take control of your litigation and make you more confident about doing it yourself. Applies to England and Wales

	Small Claims kit by Lawpack Sue your bank as many times as you like with just one Small Claims kit by Lawpack. Follow this link to read the review. The kit contains everything you need: instruction manual, templates, examples, forms and a comprehensive CDRom. Applies to England and Wales

[maxine989]

Hi blazejohny

I have been spending ages looking through other people's threads and I really don't know what Barclaycard will do next, what with it being estimated charges and all that. I assume that you will be sent the data you requested and then you would have to send amended details to the court (unless of course you have already had them since you post on the 17th). The best thing to do is read some of barclaycard success stories. That gives you an idea of what to expect... I am going to do the same now myself.

Like I said... I am at the same stage as you, although I haven't filed the claim yet... I was going to do it on Monday... I am just unsure about a few things before I go for it... such as the correct interest rate. I was going for the contractual 19.9% (which I quoted in my LBA, but I have read in a few places that barclaycard's rate is actually 27.9%... so I am just checking that out first.

So you have filed you claim with MCOL... was it on the estimated amount??

	Small Claims kit by Lawpack Sue your bank as many times as you like with just one Small Claims kit by Lawpack. Follow this link to read the review. The kit contains everything you need: instruction manual, templates, examples, forms and a comprehensive CDRom. Applies to England and Wales

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[blazejohny]

Maxine ur claim is huge compared to mine. I'm claim back £323 charges in total.
What happened with me is that they 1st gave me usual microfinche rubbish. They then wrote back saying that microfinche actually came under Data Protection Act . Their own 28 days to send the pre 2004 statements and my 40 day Subject Access Request deadline passed on 13/01/07. I even gave them an extra week but up to now nothing. I will argue to the court re:estimated charges that Barclaycard have failed to supply full details as requested by myself. If i have to amend my claim I will make sure that make them pay for the costs as its their fault.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[Glenn UK]

expect barclays to acknowledge and then defend the claim then settle a little while before it gets to court.

Its not guaranteed but this is what has often happened

HTh

Glenn

[maxine989]

Glenn

What about estimated charges?? Any idea what Barclays tend to do?

Maxine

[blazejohny]

Got a letter from Mr Nuttal today offering £200 as the difference between charges and £12 recommended by the OFT. I reckon I underestimated my claim but I still dont have statements from Barclaycard. I claimed for £323 but using their figures they charged me 25 times at £20 a pop. What do I do? I checked MCOL and the acknowldged my claim today. Is it too late to amend the claim and can claim for these other charges when the statements arrive or just count my losses?

[maxine989]

Hi..

I had the same letter by the sounds of it... they gave me £300 odd off my Mastercard, and almost off my Visa. Like you I still have no statements. Even though you may be able to work out what your total charges was by doing some calculations with the figures they h=gave you... you still have no dates. And, like me... it is impossible to work out the true amount of interest owned.

Yesterday I filed a case at court against them for non-compliance of the data protection act. It cost £30. On my N1 I calimed for:

*Order under Section 7 and Section 15(2) of the Data Protection Act 1998

*Damages equaling £150.00

I am hoping this will force them to provide me with the statements. I have sent an LBA with estimated charges a month ago, but am reluctant tot take them to court on estimated charges as you have to be able to prove what charges they have levied from you.

I am interested to know how you get on... have you got a court date or anything yet?

Also... I had a letter today telling me they had removed the cash advance facility... and lowered to my credit limit to £500... even though my balance is a lot higher than that!! It doesn't make sense... this probably means they will charge me overlimit fee now until I can afford to bring it down. I will be so glad when I can pay Barclaycard off... they are nothing but trouble and one of the most expensive card interest rates around!

have you had a similar letter?

	Small Claims kit by Lawpack Sue your bank as many times as you like with just one Small Claims kit by Lawpack. Follow this link to read the review. The kit contains everything you need: instruction manual, templates, examples, forms and a comprehensive CDRom. Applies to England and Wales

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[maxine989]

I think you have to pay £35 to amend you claim.

[Glenn UK]

Re estimated charges, i had one or two in my claim with Barclaycard.

When they made me my offer i kept saying i cant settle because you haven't provided me with the data i am entitled to, when they agreed everything i wanted in terms of charges, interest i paid, plus contractual interest and costs i thought it was a fair deal in my case.

Re their offer of part settlement use the appropriate template from the library and highlight to them that they obviously have the data to asses your charges and can you have the data you are entitled to.

Remind them when you send the LBA for sec 7 non compliance you include the reference to their offer and the implications of it.

OH and second thing, make sure you have info for all your account history not just the last six years.


HTH

Glenn

	Small Claims kit by Lawpack Sue your bank as many times as you like with just one Small Claims kit by Lawpack. Follow this link to read the review. The kit contains everything you need: instruction manual, templates, examples, forms and a comprehensive CDRom. Applies to England and Wales

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[blazejohny]

Originally Posted by maxine989

Hi..

I had the same letter by the sounds of it... they gave me £300 odd off my Mastercard, and almost off my Visa. Like you I still have no statements. Even though you may be able to work out what your total charges was by doing some calculations with the figures they h=gave you... you still have no dates. And, like me... it is impossible to work out the true amount of interest owned.

Yesterday I filed a case at court against them for non-compliance of the data protection act. It cost £30. On my N1 I calimed for:

*Order under Section 7 and Section 15(2) of the Data Protection Act 1998

*Damages equaling £150.00

I am hoping this will force them to provide me with the statements. I have sent an LBA with estimated charges a month ago, but am reluctant tot take them to court on estimated charges as you have to be able to prove what charges they have levied from you.

I am interested to know how you get on... have you got a court date or anything yet?

Also... I had a letter today telling me they had removed the cash advance facility... and lowered to my credit limit to £500... even though my balance is a lot higher than that!! It doesn't make sense... this probably means they will charge me overlimit fee now until I can afford to bring it down. I will be so glad when I can pay Barclaycard off... they are nothing but trouble and one of the most expensive card interest rates around!

have you had a similar letter?

HI Maxine,

I've had no letter about reducing the balance etc. They did reduce the balance by £50 but that was just before I asked send my Subject Access Request etc so I dont it was related to my claim. but then i again I havent received my statements for about 2 months now so they could well have redused my credit limit. I asked them about this and they gave some excuse about someone trying to use my account fraudulently blah blah blah and they wanted to verify details before sending out statements or reinstating my internet banking. Anyway they acknowledged so they have another 14 days as of yesterday to defend or pay up. I ****ed off about the estimate being lower that the actual charges tho. I'm gonna do as Glen said and not settle until they send me all my account details. If it is indeed higher than my estimate should pullout of the county court claim and resubmit or amend my claim. I should be able to recover the amendment fee as Barclaycard have not responded to my Subject Access Request request. Any thoughts?

Maxine see how the claim for non disclosure goes as I suspect your statements will turn up pretty soon and you can claim on actual charges!

	County Court guidebook by Judge Patricia Pearl Follow this link to read the review of this excellent Small Claims Guidebook. This comprehensive and very accessible guide will take you through the process of suing or defending a claim. This guide will help you take control of your litigation and make you more confident about doing it yourself. Applies to England and Wales

	Small Claims kit by Lawpack Sue your bank as many times as you like with just one Small Claims kit by Lawpack. Follow this link to read the review. The kit contains everything you need: instruction manual, templates, examples, forms and a comprehensive CDRom. Applies to England and Wales

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[maxine989]

Amending it would be easier, but I am not sure how you go about it... I assume you have to send in a new schedule of charges with a covering letter or something. I will look into amending claims, as I have a NatWest claim that I want to amend, as I claimed the lower interest and now I realise that you can claim the higher one. Hmmm... will do some reading and get back to you if I find anything useful about amending claims.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[maxine989]

Hows it going Blaze...?

I still haven't got my statements....ARGGGHHH!!!

I filed at court for:

Order under Section 7 and Section 15(2) of the Data Protection Act 1998

Damages equaling £150.00

that was over two weeks ago... not sure what to do next... am going to read up on it today before i go down to the court.

let us know how you are getting on with yours when you get chance.

[bs0lth]

I estimated my charges, took the two years that I had multiplied it by 3 to get approx 6 yrs worth and thought may as well give this ago. Once it got to the court stage, I put in that they had not complied therefore, my charges were estimated, and believe it or not they folded today for full settlement... deadline midnight though due in court tomorrow.

best of luck with your claim.

[blazejohny]

Hi maxine,

I received a letter a few days ago reducing my credit limit by £200 lol. Obviously in retaliation and so that i dont actually see any of my refund (offered £200) I wrote back refusing to accept their £200 offer. I even asked that they remove the £200 immediately which they did but I'm now obviously over my limit. I will write back to them saying by reducing my limit they caused me to be overlimit. I think i should also write complaint to the FSA as they will hit me with fees/charges and also it will affect my credit rating.

I still havent received my statements and will refuse to settle until they provide me with all my statements. They have until tomorrow to defend!!! I let you know what happens...I'm in the middle of another claim with NatWest which they have defended and are yet to even offer me anything! On the other hand HSBC agreed for full refund (£154) after LBA, which i have accepted. Has anyone won any damages for failure to provide statements under the Data Protection Act?

Originally Posted by maxine989

Hows it going Blaze...?

I still haven't got my statements....ARGGGHHH!!!

I filed at court for:

Order under Section 7 and Section 15(2) of the Data Protection Act 1998

Damages equaling £150.00

that was over two weeks ago... not sure what to do next... am going to read up on it today before i go down to the court.

let us know how you are getting on with yours when you get chance.

	Small Claims kit by Lawpack Sue your bank as many times as you like with just one Small Claims kit by Lawpack. Follow this link to read the review. The kit contains everything you need: instruction manual, templates, examples, forms and a comprehensive CDRom. Applies to England and Wales

[blazejohny]

HELP!
Received the following today:

Before Deputy District Judge Smith. Upon review of the Court file IT IS ORDERED THAT:
1) The claim be listed for an allocation hearing on 25 May 2007 at 2.00pm (time estimate 15mins)
2) At this hearing the court will consider either:
a) staying the claim pending the decision in a test case involving the defendant or,
b) Giving directions for this claim to be heard as a test case and if necessary allocating the claim to the multi-track for that purpose.

3) Not less than 14 days before the allocation hearing, the defendant shall file with the court and serve upon the Claimant details of any cases preceeding as a test case, the decision in which will determine the issues in this claim. Alternatively, the defendant shall file with the court and serve upon the Claimant draft directions for this case to proceed as a test case.

4) The claimant may make any representations to the Court in writing provided these are received by the Court and served on the defendant not less than 5 days before the allocation hearing. If either party is prepared to abide by the decision of the judge as to the directions to be given, that party is excused from attending the preliminary hearing.

.END

Can some please explain what exactly this means and is it good or bad for me. HELP!

	Bank Charges You should have started your claim for your bank charges by now. Don't wait. You should send your bank a Subject Acess Request asking for all personal data they hold on you - not just statements. You should calculate all of your bank charges and related interest as far back as 1995. You should send your bank a demand for a refund giving them 7 days. You should commence your legal action adding 8% statutory interest. If you wait for the outcome of the test case, you may not be able to claim like this. you may not be able to claim interest. You may only be offered the difference between the charge and the OFT "fair charge". The repayment scheme will try to limit you to refinds from 2001 only. A repayment scheme will not deal with any bank charges related defaults on the credit register whereas in a court action you can ask for these to be removed and to be compensated for the damage caused to you and your family by them. You should also write to the bank and to the CRA and put all charges related credit entries in disupte and warn them that you will want them removed from the Register when the test case is over. Warn them also that you are likely to be seeking compensation for these wrongful data entries. Full and final settlement Have you previously accepted a partial repayment of your bank charges in full settlement? You will still be able to claim the rest of your money back after the Test case is decided. Get all your information back to 1995 and put in your claim now.

[anley]

I used estimated charges and won, not the estimated amount but the tru amount, they said 'we'll settle' but not for the amount you want etc. I then made them send me the statements which I got about 1 week later.

Click on my username and you'll see the post I made about this last week.

Overall I'd say that suing them for estimated charges is very worthwhile.