Advice on bundle pls very nervous!

[missmoneypenny]

Hi there,

I have received a court date of 19th February for my claim against barclaycard and Im nervous!

I need a bit of help with my court bundle. i have printed the supplied by Bookworm. Do i just print it out, add my correspondance and statements and not change anything on Bookworms bundle at all? Should I print the EDM and OFT summary or leave it as website links? Am I missing anything? Do i need a statement of defence? if so what is this????

Sorry for all the questions but im nervous and excited all at the same time...this has been going on an awful long time and i almost there!


thanks in advance for your help

Miss M

[hagenuk]

Miss, you do not print out the bundle as is, you need to edit it first as is explained on the page where you download the bundle.

Basic Court Bundle

Read this page agin for more information and visit the Barclays forum to see what others have done.

[yorkshiregrit]

thats not a very helpful answer now is it - the page where you download the budle says "personalise it"

She says do i just add my correspondance and my statements and leave the rest alone? I think thats all you need to do yes, but someone to confirm that would be nice

what she wants to know is if she needs to print off the contents of the websites referenced in the bundle? I suspect the answer is yes you do but again, some confirmation would be nice

I know that people here provide their time and advice for free, and that a lot of people do ask blindingly stupid questions, but this lady has asked the same questions I have been wondering about and no one seems to be able to say yes or no to these things??

To simply point people back to the page they are asking questions about when they have obviously read all that is there is patronising in the extreme, the info she asked for is not on that page so why send her back there?

I thank people here for all the work they do, its a great site, and as Admin on a huge footy forum myself i know how hard a job it can be, but i have to say it seems that the stock response to people is "all the info you need is in xxxxxxx page, go there" even if that page does not contain the info they asked for.

[missmoneypenny]

Thanks yorkshiregrit,

I did find Hagenuks response a little unhelpful because of course I read Bookworms post where the bundle is attached and of course Ive read through the forum to see what other have done!

As helpful as Bookworms post is it does not say which specific parts of the bundle may need editing if any at all, it merely suggests you need to add personal docs to it?

I have read through Bookworms bundle several times and find it quite daunting. Its hard to get my head around all the legal jargon and really i need to know if it would all be applicable to me?

I am aware I need to edit things like the index and add page numbers and include my statements, correspondence and copy of claim on MCOL.


Am I totally missing something here? i am usually an intelligent and bright human being but right now I feel inceredibly thick!

[Karnevil]

Hi missmoneypenny

You have printed out the bundle from the link in bookworms bundle thread ?

You print out the statutes and case laws you wish to rely on in court. Personalise it just means to add anything else which relates to your case....eg. the dataprotection act, or section 32 of statute of limitations - if your claim involves those in any way.

The bundle is basic, it wont fit everyones claim, but for the most straightforward return of 6 years bank charges, it is fine.

Add your correspondances, bank statements, schedule of charges to it, collate, index and copy it 3 times.

I hope thats what you are asking ?

[yorkshiregrit]

quite the opposite - i think you are in the same boat as a lot of other people, i think the process is very well explained untill you get to the point of having to make up a bundle, all the other bits you can cut, paste and follow instructions to edit them.

The Bundle, having had a look through it to prepare myself for when i get there is the only bit that has little or no guidance on WHAT to edit and ammend.

My guess is as you say you include all the docs you have, the copy of your claim from MCOL and your other letters i am guessing is enough statement of defence, if not can someone provide a template for such a thing?

I would be inclined to print out the documents that are linked in there and include the full copies.

I hope someone - maybe Bookworm, is able to clear this up as it seems a little murky to me.

[Karnevil]

Also on your court order does it ask for a statement of evidence ?



also I'll go look at the bundle thread see if it can be improved at all, but you must remember this is a self help forum. We cant supply a template for every eventuality, and if we did, and you did get into court, would you be prepared ?

The bundle should be suitable as a starting point for getting documents together to submit to the court. They are standard statutes and case laws. I dont understand what you want to amend or edit ? Its a basic bundle to help - it wasnt there when i did mine, I researched and found my own information out, brought it together, and made up the bundle. I learnt a lot and felt fully confident when I went to court. The library is full of case laws and statates, OFT reports and competition commission reports....everything you need is on this site really. It takes time, effort and research.

[Bookworm]

Sorry if it sounds unclear, I fail to see how to make it clearer:

The Index page says:

- Correspondence. I should think that's self-explanatory.
- Latest Schedule of Charges. Ditto.
- Statements. Ditto.
- Case of laws and everything else from then on is included, ready to print, as is. The links to the OFT & the EDM are there because they're easier to print directly than to format and print.

I'm not sure what else I can possibly do to make it simpler, tbh.

[yorkshiregrit]

Originally Posted by karnevil

Also on your court order does it ask for a statement of evidence ?



also I'll go look at the bundle thread see if it can be improved at all, but you must remember this is a self help forum. We cant supply a template for every eventuality, and if we did, and you did get into court, would you be prepared ?

The bundle should be suitable as a starting point for getting documents together to submit to the court. They are standard statutes and case laws. I dont understand what you want to amend or edit ? Its a basic bundle to help - it wasnt there when i did mine, I researched and found my own information out, brought it together, and made up the bundle. I learnt a lot and felt fully confident when I went to court. The library is full of case laws and statates, OFT reports and competition commission reports....everything you need is on this site really. It takes time, effort and research.

i totally agree with you that this process is one of learning - i would not want to end up in a court and not have at least a reasonable understanding of the issues that were being raised, reading the contents of the Bundle helps in that process, i agree.

However within the Bundle are 2 website links, to confirm if they need printing out and including as full documents would be a start!

You also mention this "Statement of Evidence" which has no mention anywhere in respect to the Bundle surely there should be some mention of that when downloading this??

At all other stanges there is seems to be standard wording, with different coloured sections for different eventuallities, at every other stage people get told to stick to the standard wording and add/remove the sections that apply to them, then at the final hurdle it changes to "work it out yourself" it just seems a little bit like we'll help you, but only so far!

Would be great if someone could

[missmoneypenny]

Well the thing is it seemed clear enough in the beginning an i thought i had it sussed. I dont think its your thread as such bit more to do witht he reply from hagenuk where they said I do not print out the bundle as it is. They said I need to edit it first. I couldnt see what there was to edit except for the index!

It seems to be as i orignally thought I print your very helpful bundle, add my personal docs and amend the index. As simple as that unfortumnately HagenUK confused me. Im sure it wasnt intentional!

Bookworm please dont take it personally I think your thread is amazing and I dont know what I would do without it!

As Karnevil said there is plenty info on the net but Im a complete novice and did not have a clue what the court were asking for exactly!

Im much clearer now - sorry for being a bit slow!

And one more question about this bloomin bundle if you dont mind is should I include a skeleton argument?

My letter from the court simply says I must supply the following

Copies of all documents upon which i wish to rely

Statements of all witnesses, including parties upon whose evidence you wish to rely etc etc (I assume this is not applicable to my case)

All original documents mustbe brought to the hearing

Thanks again everyone!

[yorkshiregrit]

Originally Posted by Bookworm

Sorry if it sounds unclear, I fail to see how to make it clearer:

The Index page says:

- Correspondence. I should think that's self-explanatory.
- Latest Schedule of Charges. Ditto.
- Statements. Ditto.
- Case of laws and everything else from then on is included, ready to print, as is. The links to the OFT & the EDM are there because they're easier to print directly than to format and print.

I'm not sure what else I can possibly do to make it simpler, tbh.

That has just made it clearer!!

maybe some of that info should be included in the page where you download it. (that you have to print the OFT and EDM docs yourself) and some confirmation that you need only "personallise" the first 3 sections?

Not wanting to be seen as ungrateful - it already is about 20x better than i could have even imagined i could do on my own, i guess as a newbie sometimes you can't see things that those of you with the knowledge take for granted, i know in my line of work (IT) i often have to think "am i taking peoples level of understanding for granted?"

I guess this is the same, since you understnad what you need to send it makes perfect sense, those of us with less legal minds just need a little more noddy instructions i guess.

Thanks for responing so positively, was worried it would be seen as complaining and being ungrateful!

[Karnevil]

Courts order something different for everyone.

If Moneypenny has been asked for a statement of evidence in her directions I'm sure she will let us know. I asked her if she has been asked for it....didnt say she needed to do it or that it has anything to do with a bundle.

The 2 links in the bundle - you have to decide whether you want to include them or not....its up to you - do you think they will help you in your case or not.

Why not pop over to MSE and see what their court bundle has to offer ?

[Karnevil]

And one more question about this bloomin bundle if you dont mind is should I include a skeleton argument?

My letter from the court simply says I must supply the following

Copies of all documents upon which i wish to rely

Statements of all witnesses, including parties upon whose evidence you wish to rely etc etc (I assume this is not applicable to my case)

WITNESS STATEMENTS

You will need to submit a witness statement for yourself.

I will get a template which gives you an IDEA of what to put.

[Karnevil]

case/claim No: [cLAim number]

In the [insert court name] County Court

[insert name]

CLAIMANT

-AND-

[insert name]

DEFENDANT

First WITNESS STATEMENT

OF [insert name]

I, [insert name] of [insert home address] will say as follows:-

1.I am the CLAIMANT is this case.
2.I make this Witness Statement in support of my xxxxxxxxxxxxx
3.I make this Witness Statement from information and facts within my own knowledge and which I believe to be true.


4. I have contracts with the defendant since before January 2000. I am claiming the return of money taken by the defendant in the way of charges since January 2000.The bank's charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to common law.

5. on 21/ 6/2006 Data Protection Act – Subject Access Request: Letter to defendant requesting complete list of transactions relating to my accounts since 21/6/ 2000. £10 fee enclosed.


6. On 21/6/2006 letter to defendant debt collection agency informing Abbey-wescot credit service ltd that I have cancelled my direct debit arrangements as the debt amount claimed is a unlawful penalty charges and the matters is in litigation.

7.On 25/06 /06 received a formal letter from wescot credit service ltd stating that my outstanding balance is £1701.03 that they would write off 20% (£340.21p)if I settle within 8 weeks they would mark my credit record satisfied.

8.On 12/7/06 received a letter from wescot credit service ltd saying that I should resume with my monthly payments.

9. On 12/7/06 a letter sent to wescot credit service ltd informing them that I am refusing to comply to their request to resume the monthly payment pending court outcome on my claim and I requested for the monies paid to wescot to be refunded back to me.

10. On 21/7/06 received a letter from wescot credit service ltd saying that they need to investigate with there client abbey and the account is put on hold.

11.On the [date] I filed with xxxxxx County Court a claim against the respondent for the return of excessive penalty charges as outlined in my particulars of claim.

COMPLETE WITH YOUR OWN INFORMATION

23. On 11/10/06 Notice of acknowledgement received from court.

24. On 25/10/06 Notice that a Defence has been filed received from court.

25. On 28/11/06 Allocation Questionnaire completed and returned to court. £100 fee enclosed.


26. On 20/11/06 Notice of Allocation to Small Claims Court received.

27. On 20/11 /06 Letter from DISTRICT JUDGE WRIGHT orders the hearing on 27/02/07 at croydon county court.

28. On 3rd /01/07 letter submitting disclosure of lists the claimant will be relying in court and requested a copy disclosure from defendant as to which he will be relying upon to be sent to me.

29. My claim is that the bank's charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to common law. Further, as a disproportionate penalty they are invalid under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Para.8 and sch.2(1)(e). In the event that the charges are not a penalty then they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15.

I have repeatedly asked the bank to justify their charges but they have declined to do so. As reported on a recent BBC2 ‘The Money Programme’, three experts have researched for a period of time and their conclusion is that the maximum cost incurred to process a ‘bounced cheque’ is £4.50 and a ‘direct debit or unauthorised overdraft’ is £2.50. Therefore being charged £20-£35 for the same ‘service’ is unlawful.

I am claiming interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year on £xxxxxxxx p including costs from xxxxxx DATE xxxxxx to such period as the court deems just

Statement of Truth
I believe the facts stated within this Witness Statement to be true and exhibit Exhibits [your initials 1] comprising of xx pages.


Dated this day of 2006

Signed
[type name]

Okay you need to enter all your own letter/contact/timelines etc into this. You can add in more from your POC if you wish, or refer more to cases you are including in your bundle.

[Bookworm]

Originally Posted by yorkshiregrit

That has just made it clearer!!

maybe some of that info should be included in the page where you download it. (that you have to print the OFT and EDM docs yourself) and some confirmation that you need only "personallise" the first 3 sections?

Not wanting to be seen as ungrateful - it already is about 20x better than i could have even imagined i could do on my own, i guess as a newbie sometimes you can't see things that those of you with the knowledge take for granted, i know in my line of work (IT) i often have to think "am i taking peoples level of understanding for granted?"

I guess this is the same, since you understnad what you need to send it makes perfect sense, those of us with less legal minds just need a little more noddy instructions i guess.

Thanks for responing so positively, was worried it would be seen as complaining and being ungrateful!

What legal mind? Who, where?
Meet French housewife and carer, duckie. 1 year ago, I had no idea about what any of those terms meant. That's actually why I put the bundle together, because I realised how daunting it can be to try and work out what to include.

I thought it was all self-explanatory, but have already altered the post to hopefully explain further. Work in progress, as ever.

[Karnevil]

The Skeleton argument will really just be a note to yourself on a couple sheets on which you set out your case as you wish to argue it in court, and refers to documents within in your bundle (with referenced to index and page numbers etc)

If you have three copies with you when you go to court if the judge wants a copy you can give it to him and the defendant.