Barclaycard & Microfiche - they are wrong - OFFICIAL

[noomill060]

Amazing how a threat of a prison sentence concentrates the minds of guilty people, isnt it?

Couldnt really see Carl and Peter lasting long on B block.

"Hello, I'm your new cell mate, do have internet access?"

"Shut the *@#& up, yo MY b!tch now, microfish pretty boy...."

[noomill060]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....=43&Itemi d=2


Non disclosure imprisonment threat against RBS Data Controller!

A Consumer Action Group User was today (21/11/06) granted a County Court order in respect of the failure by the Royal Bank of Scotland to comply with his disclosure request under the Data Protection Act.

District judge Forrester, making the order commented that had the claimant been able to supply him with the name of the data controller
at the Royal Bank of Scotland that he would have added a threat of imprisonment for non-compliance.

The Royal Bank of Scotland now has until January 2007 to comply with the users subject access request. The District Judge has indicated that if the Bank has not complied with the order by that time that he may make an order for imprisonment

[deadsquirrel]

Well, I've had my response to a LBA on the basis of not complying with an Subject Access Request from b/card. I will copy the contents this evening, but they will supply statements within 28 days. I'm umming and arring about whether to proceed with claim (including damages) now or on the expiry of the 28 days. Anyone got a view?

	Small Claims kit by Lawpack Sue your bank as many times as you like with just one Small Claims kit by Lawpack. Follow this link to read the review. The kit contains everything you need: instruction manual, templates, examples, forms and a comprehensive CDRom. Applies to England and Wales

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[deadsquirrel]

Letter contents from Barclaycard:

Dear ....
I write further to your recent letter regarding your request for copy statements.

As you are aware the Information Commissioners Office is likely to revise its guidance on non-computerised filing systems and believes that our microfiche records are held on a relevant filing system. Although Barclaycard reserves its position on this matter, as a goodwill gesture I have requested the statements you require from our National Records Centre. You will receive this information within 28 days. Please accept my apologies for the delay.

Our position not to provide these documents further to your earlier Subject Access Request was taken as the Information Commissioners Office had previously felt that most manual records fell outside of the definition of personal data. It now appears that their interpretation of what constitutes a relevant filing system is likely to change and they intend to publish new guidance on this in the near future.

Should you have any further questions regarding this matter please do not hesitate to contact me. If my reply does not meet with your expectations you may ultimately be eligable to refer to the Financial Ombudsman Service. Further details ofthis service are available, blah blah blah

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[Bookworm]

I'd write back and say: "You are having a laugh, you are x days gone beyond the 40 days actually allowed to comply with a Subject Access Request. I expect my information within 7 days." or words to that effect. The bloody cheek of them

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[JLW61]

A further update..

today received a letter from B'Card..

Basically.. they say they *were* right... but now they are wrong...

All statements ordered to comply with original Subject Access Request.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[noomill060]

Or in other words- "we're a bunch of wusses and we know we wouldnt last ten minutes in jail."

[TANZARELLI]

I have just writen back to Barclaycard as they are trying that with me feel free to have a look at the letter which I have sent them and adapt it to suit. Its in my therad.

Tanzarelli V's Barclaycard

Tanz

[nads75]

YES! Letter in post thismorning, they have bowed under the pressure from the Information Commissioners Office, they will now send my statements even though they dont agree with thier findings blah blah. hehe. Merry Christmas!

[pobat]

Yes i got a letter as well. they are asking for another 28 days from the date of their letter that they just sent me.
ANOTHER 28 DAYS!!!!

But i think that have kicked themselves in the nads because that have also sent me a second letter - as a goodwill gesture we will credit your account with the difference between charges you have incurred and the £12 fee recommended by the OFT. This would be £136.

It seems that they already have got access to the microfiche and still holding onto it for another 28 days.

[I hate barclaycard]

Merry Christmas to all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 Wahoow, what great news, just sent of my LBA to barclaycard with a whopping great estimate for the statements that they would not supply.....i will wait and see there response before proceeding, i wonder wether theyll send me a reply relevent to the LBA or just send the missing satements????? Have a good xmas all xx

	Small Claims kit by Lawpack Sue your bank as many times as you like with just one Small Claims kit by Lawpack. Follow this link to read the review. The kit contains everything you need: instruction manual, templates, examples, forms and a comprehensive CDRom. Applies to England and Wales

[gordonhall]

I wrote to the Information Commisioner about 10 days ago complaining about Barclaycard and their stance with the Microfiche. How long before I receive a reply from them?

[pobat]

thay sent me a letter saying that it will take 28 days. Im getting a bit cheeky and saying thats not good enough, and only giving them 10 days. i think that they put themselves in this situation and it has gone on for long enough.

[GSMGuy]

That ruling from the Judge is classic - Superb thread!

Mike

[corwood]

Hi there,
Brilliant news for you. Can i ask you probably a stupid question?? does it mean that the microfiche i have recieved for my barclays current accounts do not contain all the info i need???
Thanks

[mrpromiscous]

Hi everyone, I've made several claims now using the guidence provided by the peeps on here, however this claim against Barclaycard has got my brain aching a bit because as with everyone else making claims against B/Card recently I recieved the microfiche argument and statements going back to May 04 dispite the fact my account was opened in 2001. So I started a claim on the basis of reclaiming the actual charges I had proof for and estimated charges calculated by the charges applied duing the period 04 - present, all was fine until B/Card decided to refund the charges I had proof for !!! So now all I have left is the estimated charges, can I start a claim based solely on these claims or will a judge just strike out the claim at the 1st viewing of my POC ?!? I feel putting a part in the POC about B'Card's non-compliance with my Sec.10 S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) would help me, espcially since the information commisioners office ruled that their microfiche system was (as we all knew) a 'relevent filing system'. But I dont really want to waste the court fees by having my claim struck out before even stepping into court ! I sent them a 2nd LBA after the letter outlining their partial refund stating I would accept it as an interim payment only and that I would be pursuing them for the estimated charges, I also had a good dig at them about their microfiche boolooks and I have recieved a letter back from them now which is a carbon copy od deadsquirrels :

Dear ....
I write further to your recent letter regarding your request for copy statements.

As you are aware the Information Commissioners Office is likely to revise its guidance on non-computerised filing systems and believes that our microfiche records are held on a relevant filing system. Although Barclaycard reserves its position on this matter, as a goodwill gesture I have requested the statements you require from our National Records Centre. You will receive this information within 28 days. Please accept my apologies for the delay.

Our position not to provide these documents further to your earlier Subject Access Request was taken as the Information Commissioners Office had previously felt that most manual records fell outside of the definition of personal data. It now appears that their interpretation of what constitutes a relevant filing system is likely to change and they intend to publish new guidance on this in the near future.

Should you have any further questions regarding this matter please do not hesitate to contact me. If my reply does not meet with your expectations you may ultimately be eligable to refer to the Financial Ombudsman Service. Further details ofthis service are available, blah blah blah

The thing is they had their 40 days..... and MANY MORE since so I cant see why I should wait another month before filing a claim against them so I want to continue using my original estimates and then if they want to argue the fact in their defence and furnish me with the relevent statements I will alter the amount claimed accordingly, if there are any fees for changing my POC then obviously I would be looking to add these to my claim because it was B/Cards obstructive attitude that made this neccersary in the first place !
Have I got a leg to stand on here though people or should I just wait for the full set of copy statements to arrive ???

MrP

P.S. Thanks Rooster for highlighting this thread to me

MrP

	Small Claims kit by Lawpack Sue your bank as many times as you like with just one Small Claims kit by Lawpack. Follow this link to read the review. The kit contains everything you need: instruction manual, templates, examples, forms and a comprehensive CDRom. Applies to England and Wales

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[tamadus]

I would simply wait for the statements ot arrive, mine got here last week and they only go back 5 years, so I am going to make a claim based on those and estimate the rest.

My claim is somewhat different though as will be revealed once it's fully resolved.

[mrpromiscous]

yea I just begrudge giving them yet more time to turn the statements around ya kno hummmmmm so I wonder what exactly your lil surprise is.... interesting.....

MrP

[tamadus]

All will be revealed in due course. I don't want to tip their hand before I drop it on them though

[bobtheb]

Hi Mrp i shouldnt worry too much about having an estimated claim in,mine was estimated and they have just told me the correct figures today(after i had got my court date )although my statements have arrived toothe settlement offer they have made seems about rightbobtheb v Barclaycard