Barclaycard & Microfiche - they are wrong - OFFICIAL

[special_k]

You say you are writing to BC to ask for statements... are your 40 days up yet?

My 40 days are up and I have sent LBA but tempted to ask for statements again.

Advice please!

Thanks
KP

	Small Claims kit by Lawpack Sue your bank as many times as you like with just one Small Claims kit by Lawpack. Follow this link to read the review. The kit contains everything you need: instruction manual, templates, examples, forms and a comprehensive CDRom. Applies to England and Wales

[JLW61]

am at the stage of about to issue court papers..

40 days was up some time ago.. I was planning on claiming for the 2 years they supplied.. then going after the rest

Now that I have Information Commissioners statement.. have told them I expect additional 4 years statements as part of my original Subject Access Request

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[Mr Chips]

Hi i also put in a complaint some time ago now & have just received the exact same letter as JLW 61. No more microfiche treatment for anybody else - hopefully. I had previously started the ball rolling, claiming an estimate for any missing statements.

The Biter Bit !

[mr_pain]

Im just wondering....can I include a copy of this (including reference) in a Subject Access Request?

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[gordonhall]

this is indeed good news. I've issued legal proceedings and need to submit my documents into the court in the next couple of days. Hopefully this will spur Barclays into settling. I had made the decision to pay for the statements and claim the money back - Barclays were refusing.

Whilst noomill060 came up with some great figures, they almost seem as magical as the ones the banks make up when charging us (sorry - no offence intended). Anybody any idea of a realistic cost we can put on the compensation amount? Any precedent set before us?

[deadsquirrel]

Originally Posted by tamadus

Just write to them saying something along the lines that following the Information Commissioners Office decision that their microfiche is a relevent filing system you now expect your S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to be satisfied in full otherwise you will issue proceddings for non compliance without further notice.

Letter went today - a 7 day LBA special. Suggested they supply information as per my Subject Access Request of August, or I'll see them in court.

	Small Claims kit by Lawpack Sue your bank as many times as you like with just one Small Claims kit by Lawpack. Follow this link to read the review. The kit contains everything you need: instruction manual, templates, examples, forms and a comprehensive CDRom. Applies to England and Wales

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[noomill060]

Phoned Carl Nuttall today about the Information Commissioner's view that Braclaycrud's microfish red herring was relevant.

Carl said Barclaycrud would be meeting with Information Commissioner this week and if Barclaycrud were ordered to comply with our Subject Access Request's they would do so next week.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[tamadus]

Thought the Information Commissioners Office had already told them its relevant. Guess they are trying to wriggle out of it again lmao. Going to be a bit difficult for the Information Commissioners Office to change their mind after telling so many of us that it is relevant

[noomill060]

Indeed, tamadus. Funny thing is, young Carl knew exactly what I was talking about.

I expect Barclaycrud have made an appeal against the Information Commissioner's decision and he has indulged them with a meeting where he can chew their nads off over a pot of Earl Grey and chocolate Hob Nobs.

Oh, how the other half live...

[pobat]

Its about time.


Seems Barclaycard have been very naughty, they deserve a spanking!!!
CAG ---><---Barclaycard

[noomill060]

gordon- not magical. As i stated, they are taken from the profesionally written POC in this thread where the banks solicitor's bowels moved when they read it. They gave up, waved the white flag and coughed up a final settlement of £4500 (including damages) over a charges claim of a little over £1350.

Contractual Interest: Full Details of Case against RBS including pleadings

[noomill060]

Click on the link, Gordon and see how this charges issue SHOULD be approached.

[AllanLyn]

Hi JLW61
Congrats. on your work with the Information Commissioner.
I recieved a reply from Barclays on Friday stating the usual about microfiche ... I have drafted the following reply quoting from the response you got from the information commissioner. Is it ok to quote your reference number? do you have any further advice regarding the letter. Any comment woul be appreciated.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>

Thank you for your prompt reply to my Subject Access Request.

I am concerned that you say it is not possible to provide details that you hold on microfiche and I would like to point out the following information relating to an investigation by the Information Commissioner.

I am aware this relates to Barclaycard, however, logic states that youshould also act on the Information Commissioners findings, that “Following our visit, we concluded that the microfiche system used by Barclaycard is a relevant filing system for the purposes of the Act. This means that in our view the information is personal data and should have been supplied as part of your S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) within 40 days and for a maximum fee of £10. As a result, it is our view that it is likely Barclaycard has contravened the sixth data protection principle, as this requires data controllers to process personal data in accordance with data subjects' rights.”

Below are highlights from the report.

Case Reference RFA0129130.

“It may first be helpful to clarify that although the information contained within your bank statements, such as details of transactions, is considered to be personal data under the Act so must be supplied in response to a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), the Act simply states that personal data must be supplied in an 'intelligible form'. This means that the information you have requested must be provided if it is held as personal data, but not necessarily in its original format i.e. as a bank statement.

As you may be aware, the Act only applies to 'personal data' i.e. information which is processed electronically and which relates to a living, identifiable individual. Information which is held in some manual (non-computerised) records can also be personal data for the purposes of the Act if it is stored in what is known as a 'relevant filing system'.

The Information Commissioner's Office (Information Commissioners Office) produced guidance to help data controllers such as Barclaycard decide whether or not manual records were stored in a relevant filing system; however this was amended following a Court of Appeal ruling a number of years ago (Durant v FSA 2003). In light of the outcome of this case, the Information Commissioners Office revised its guidance and narrowed its interpretation of what constitutes a relevant filing system. This guidance suggests that unless the filing system is highly structured, it will fall outside the scope of the Act and led us to conclude that in our view most manual records fall outside the definition of personal data.

We recognise that the definition of a relevant filing system is open to interpretation and that not all parties will agree. During recent months we have once again been reviewing our interpretation of what constitutes a relevant filing system and intend to publish new guidance in the near future, although this is not as a direct result of the recent issues surrounding bank charges. The new guidance is likely to represent a significant shift in emphasis from our existing guidance and our view will be that many more manual records are likely to fall within the scope of the Act.

Following your complaint and others like it we contacted Barclaycard for a detailed explanation of its microfiche system, including how the information in it is stored and retrieved. It was not clear from the response whether or not the system was a relevant filing system; therefore Barclaycard invited me and a number of my colleagues to inspect it and see the system in operation.

Following our visit, we concluded that the microfiche system used by Barclaycard is a relevant filing system for the purposes of the Act. This means that in our view the information is personal data and should have been supplied as part of your S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) within 40 days and for a maximum fee of £10. As a result, it is our view that it is likely Barclaycard has contravened the sixth data protection principle, as this requires data controllers to process personal data in accordance with data subjects' rights.


We have informed Barclaycard of the outcome of our investigation and I will now write to it under separate cover with details of your complaint. If it has not done so already, I will instruct Barclaycard to provide you with the personal data you requested as part of your S.A.R - (Subject Access Request).

In addition, section 13 of the Act gives individuals the right to claim compensation if they have suffered damage as a result of a contravention of the Act.

I look forward to your confirmation that the information requested in my Subject Access Request is provided in full including any information held on Microfiche.

[tamadus]

Allanlyn,

You dont need to quote case numbers at all. The letter posted here by JLW is identical to letters recieved by a lot of people. The Information Commissioners Office carried out the investigation into Barclaycard as a result of a lot of complaints.

All you need to do is remind them of the Information Commissioners Office stance regarding their microfiche and tell them that unless the comply with your Subject Access Request then you will report them immediately.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[AllanLyn]

Thanks for your advice Tadmus... The reason I was asking is because io am sending this to Barclays Bank not Barclay Card....

[tamadus]

Originally Posted by AllanLyn

Thanks for your advice Tadmus... The reason I was asking is because io am sending this to Barclays Bank not Barclay Card....

I think the Information Commissioners Office's decision will apply to Barclays as well as Barclaycard. If they try getting that picky then I guess the ICOP have another mass complaint on their hands

[gordonhall]

noomill060 - Short on time at the moment, but I'll make sure I take a good look over the next few days. Thanks for that. Cheers.

[noomill060]

Barclaycard is simply a trading name of Barclay's Bank PLC. They are one and the same company.

[CodyCalling]

A bit of good news.

Just phoned Barclaycard regarding how the cheeky b*stards had charged me twice for the Data Access Request. All ready to kick off with them when this nice customer relations lady told me that in light of what the Information Commissioners Office had found they were going to provide me with the microfiched statements from June 2001 to May 2004. Apparently about to be ordered. Don't know why they won't give me pre June 2001. Is that when the charges structure was introduced?

[Bicester1]

Hi.CodyCalling VICTORY!!!

Like you just phoned the nice Mr Nuttall. All statements in the post! Barclaycard are caving in!!!!

Happy Christmas Barclaycard!

Bicester1