Advice required for Barclaycard

[BTNelson]

I've had my Barclaycard for many years (probably over 10) and at one point I paid it off and cancelled it but Barclaycard sent me a new card after the expirty date had ceased.
Anyway, back in Feb my husband lost his job and I wrote to them by email ( it was quicker as we are overseas at the moment) to say that we had lost the main income earnings in our family and requested a 3 month payment break and als asked if they would be good enough to suspend all charges and interest for this period.
At first I only received an automated response saying that they they had received my email and were very busy but they would respond shortly.
After about a month of hearing nothing I emailed again and got another automated response, same again, but then at a later date I got another automated response telling me to still make minimum monthly payments and contact my local CAB, but I am overseas and we don't have CAB!

I have emailed several time since requesting that they answer my original emailed and the specific points I raised in it but have only had the automated responses.

At one point I gave them a time limit and stated that if they didn't respond by this date I would assume that they accepted my payment break and the terms I listed but again no response.

They continued to add on interest, late payment charges and now this has taken me over my limit I am getting charged 'over limit' charges!

After the three month break I resumed my normal monthly payments but
I've had reminder and demand letters and have written back addressing my info to the Head of Collections by name. Still no repsonse.
I had a call from Mercers on the weekend who tried to get me to agree to a payment plan but I asked them to call me again in a few weeks.

After reading info on this forum, I've now requested a copy of my agreement, again by email as it's quicker (mail takes 6 days from here by post) but I've had an reply email telling me to write to Head Office to request it.

Anyone got any ideas on how to proceed, or what to do etc.

I believe if they can't provide the agreement they cant chase the debt?

Any help most appreciated.

[slick132]

Hi BTN,

Welcome to CAG and sorry for the delay in replying.

Your CCA request by email will likely be ignored. Unless you follow the correct procedures, you can't claim that the a/c is properly in dispute. Also, you need a proper paper trail so, if you get to formal court proceedings to dispute the debt or reclaim their penalty charges, you have copies of all correspondence.

Use the Letter N from here and enclose the £1 fee - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...templates.html

After 14 working days, if they've not provided the agreement, you can claim the a/c is in dispute (of course, they'll disagree).

[BTNelson]

Thanks Slick,

I've posted a letter today (by registered mail) to request the CCA.
I've also got copies of every email (sent and received) and have already mailed paper copies to the 'Head of Collections' at Barclays.
Let's see what happens from here and thanks for your reply.

BTN

[BTNelson]

Hi, I've now received a letter from Mercers saying 'despite requests from Barlcays I have not made the required payments' and they are asking me to bring the account up to date, which will include paying some of the charges I am disputing. This letter was dated 3 days before the rep from Mercers called me (which was actually on a Sunday night!). As I am still awaiting a response from Barclays, which they promised by 14th Oct, and I have still to receive my CCA I'm not sure how to respond to Mercers on this. Any ideas?

[the_shadow]

Originally Posted by BTNelson

Hi, I've now received a letter from Mercers saying 'despite requests from Barlcays I have not made the required payments' and they are asking me to bring the account up to date, which will include paying some of the charges I am disputing. This letter was dated 3 days before the rep from Mercers called me (which was actually on a Sunday night!). As I am still awaiting a response from Barclays, which they promised by 14th Oct, and I have still to receive my CCA I'm not sure how to respond to Mercers on this. Any ideas?

Exactly that... something similar to below perhaps..

Dear Sir,

I thank you for your letter dated xx/xx/xxxx, unfortunately until I have a response from Barclaycard which was promised to be with me by the 14th Oct I couldnt possibly do anything that could potentially affect a future complaint to the fos and therefore wont even be considering making a payment or entering into any discussion until I have had said response.

Again if the said response is not to my satisfaction then I will consider my options at that point and advise.

S.

[BTNelson]

Thanks Shadow.....

[slick132]

Hi BTN,

Please respond to the PM I sent you.

[BTNelson]

Hey guess what - after my request for my CCA, today I received my standard T&C's from BC.
So, whats' the best step forward?
Do I write back and put the account in dispute or is there another procedure to follow before this?

[slick132]

Letter to BC:-

Dear sir or madam,

Account Number: XXX

I refer to your letter of xx date in reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

You have replied to the above by sending a copy of your companies current terms and conditions. I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

To clarify, just sending the terms and conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a "true copy" of the agreement.

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, "the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form." This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

And more importantly

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

The regulations state:
(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-
(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;
(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancellable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.
It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable. I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that, whilst the request has not been complied with, the default continues.

If you fail to supply the proper document within 14 days, a formal complaint will be made to the fos for investigation.


Yours faithfully

[BTNelson]

Hi, The T&C's received were actually addressed in my husbands name and not mine (I had requested them for both of us). A couple of days later an 'agreement' arrived in the mail, again addressed to my husband, however it looked like a standard photcopied agreement and did not have any personal details or signatures on it. Today is the last day for my agreement to arrive so I guess I should be ready with a response. I plan to send separate letters, one for my husband stating that the agreement they have sent is unacceptable and one for myself to say that they have breached the Consumer Credit Act by not sending my CC agreement. I intend to use the relevant templates suggested on this website and I will keep you informed, thanks for your help guys!

[slick132]

Hi BTN,

May be best to allow a few extra days before you act, to allow for any postal delays still occurring.

[BTNelson]

Ah yes thanks for the reminder Slick, as we are overseas I wasn't aware.

[BTNelson]

I am a little confused by one of the items in your template letter provided above

The regulations state:
(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-
(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;
(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancellable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

I thought signatures had to be on an agreement.

Also there seem to be a lot of different 'sample letters' and 'templates' on this site for the same thing and obviously I am wanting to send the correct one.

I need to send one for myself as Barclaycard haven't responded at all to my CCA request, and I need to send one for my husband as all they have sent is a copy of T&C's and a photocopied agreement with out any personal info or signatures on it.

Please can you advise?

[slick132]

Hi BTN,

The regulations dealing with the matter you raise are covered here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...9&d=1193876017

Reading the CCA1974 legislation in isolation is not enough because of subsequent amendments, SI 1983 being one example.

The details of law are summarised by Steven4064 in his useful guide at Link No5 in my signature.

[BTNelson]

Thanks Slick, I will read through, attempt to understand! and decide what is my next action.

[BTNelson]

Hi, I've read through the regulations and Link No5 and my understanding is that for barclaycard to send a copy of an agreement without my personal details/signature complies with the Consumer Credit Act, however the fact that the agreement does not contain these details/signture means that the agreement is NOT enforceable. Am I right here?And can I put the account in dispute?

[slick132]

Hi BTN,

Yes, you are right.

Yes, you should put the a/c in dispute.

Steven says in his tutorial that a company can comply with a request under s.77, 78 and 79 but such compliance had nothing to do with the enforceablility of an agreement.

[atom02]

Originally Posted by slick132

Hi BTN,

The regulations dealing with the matter you raise are covered here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...9&d=1193876017

Reading the CCA1974 legislation in isolation is not enough because of subsequent amendments, SI 1983 being one example.

The details of law are summarised by Steven4064 in his useful guide at Link No5 in my signature.

This explains my own confusion in a separate thread - I was reading the act itself, with the hope of getting clarity!!

[BTNelson]

Thank you Slick, that's great news, but probably just the beginning. I'm hoping that due to my location now Barclaycard will deem it too difficult to chase the debt and write it off.

[slick132]

Hmmm,

Don't hold your breath !!