Spamalot V Barclaycard/MSDW/Goldfish.

[Spamalot]

Originally Posted by the_shadow

Its far too small to read but those t&c at the bottom dont look right... why are they not subject to the same blurring thats occurred in the text in the app above?

Have to say thats the clearest copy I've seen of an MSDW app from pre2000 yet

S.

Re the T&C's,on the copy that I have it looks very similar to the rest of the form so it's hard to tell whether they were on the back or just appeared from nowhere!

I'm going on the assumption that as this is an application form it isn't an enforceable agreement and therefore they haven't fullfilled their obligations quite yet.

But I am quite happy to be corrected if somone out there wishes to contradict.

I will carry on regardless if only to annoy BS because I despise them so much!

Spam.

[Spamalot]

I'm not sure if this scan is a bit better than the last one, I played around on 'paint' a bit to see if I could make it more legible.

Msdw app picture by Spamalot_bucket - Photobucket

Has anyone else received one of these before and taken things further?

I am sure I read somewhere that this was in fact MSDW's idea of an agreement at the time and their paperwork wasn't up to scratch so they sold off all the accounts but I can't remember where I read it...

Any Ideas?

Probably just a dream.

Cheers, Spam

[Spamalot]

Bumpity Bump..

Any advice on what to do with this MSDW application form.... It's impossible to read and I refuse to go out and buy a magnifying glass!

Seriously... Is this what can be construed as a legible copy of an agreement or can I tell them to go and boil their heads and come up with something better!

Spam.

[slick132]

Hi Spammy,

I'll come back with me proper specs and take a better look.

In the meantime, here's Steven's fabbo guide to credit agreements - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...greements.html

[slick132]

Nah !!

Can't make out the T&C's even with specs, which brings the document into question on the grounds of legibility.

I'll ask for expert opinion on this.

[Spamalot]

Originally Posted by slick132

Nah !!

Can't make out the T&C's even with specs, which brings the document into question on the grounds of legibility.

I'll ask for expert opinion on this.

Hi Slick and thanks for your input... sorry you had the inconvenience of finding your specs.

I have attempted to copy out the 'financial particulars' into word and I believe this to be what they have sent me... (had to take my specs off... never seen such small 'small print' )

Financial and related Particulars.

• 1.We shall determine the credit limit and the cash credit limit from time to time and shall notify these to you
• 2. Interest rate for balance transfers made by 01/03/00 and other amounts payable in relation to such Balance Transfers 0.565% per month for the period of 6 months following the date of the balance transfer concerned and thereafter at the rate of 1.388 (?) % per month.
• 3. Interest rates for cash advances and other amounts payable in relation to such transactions ???% per month.
• 4. Interest rates for purchases and all other amounts payable under the agreement not mentioned in 2 or 3 above 1.388% per month.
• 5. We shall charge a cash advance fee of 1.5% of the amount of the transaction concerned or £1.50 (whichever is the greater).
• 6. Each month when there is an outstanding balance on the account you must make payment on or before the 25th day after the relevant monthly statement date unless we allow you to make a reduced payment or no payment as described in condition 6.8. Your statement will show you the due date for payment. You must pay at least the minimum payment plus any arrears on the account as at the date of the relevant statement. The minimum payment will be £5 or 2% of the account balance as shown on the relevant statement (whichever is the greater) plus any amount by which the account balance is over the credit limit as at the date of the relevant statement. If the account balance is less than £5 the minimum payment will be the account balance. Your statement will show the Minimum payment and the amount of any arrears on the account as at the relevant statement date.
• 7. We may at our discretion in accordance with condition 6.8 occasionally allow you to make a reduced payment or no payment for a period of our choosing in which case we will continue to charge interest and not extend the period within which payment should be made to avoid interest on purchases.
• 8. APR for purchases 17.9%. APR for Cash Advances 20.4%. APR for balance transfers made by 01/03/00 6.9% for the period of 6 months following the date of the Balance Transfer concerned and thereafter at the rate of 17.9%.
• 9. We may at our discretion vary any interest rate (apart from the period or rate of any special interest rate on certain balance transfers notified to you as part of a promotion under condition 10.4) at any time after giving you at least 7 days prior written notice and we may at our discretion vary the amount of any other fees or charges payable under the agreement or any of the other terms of this agreement at any time after giving you at least 30 days prior written notice.
• 10. In working out the APR we have not taken into account any changes which may occur in the interest rates mentioned above or in the amount of rate of the Cash Advance Fee nor have we taken account of any potential benefits payable under the Cashback bonus programme in addition we have assumed that all transactions are in Sterling and have based the APR on a credit limit of £2000.

So apart from it really being pretty illegible from the print point of view I think there may be flaws where they have referred to ' conditions 6.8 and 10.4' as they are nowhere to be seen and I assume these conditions should form part of the document to make it enforceable.

The document has not been signed by an MSDW rep

and the credit limit of £2000 is only being stated as a basis of the APR so as far as I can see no credit limit is specified...

There is no information whatsoever of any charges that could be levied.

These are just my limited observations and I welcome expert opinion on this.

The boxes below the 'particulars' refer to 'rights' and 'Loss or Misuse of Credit Card They are pretty indecipherable but I can give it a go if need be.

Thanks, Spam.

[slick132]

Hi Spammy,

Steven has looked at the doc't and said it is probably enforceable.

However, I've also asked for comment about the "conditions" not being included on the doc't you rec'd.

[Spamalot]

Hi Slick, and a big thank you to you and Steven for your time.

Steven is probably sick of looking at documents for me by now! (only another 2 to go when they arrive!)

If the document does prove to be enforceable then I guess it's not the end of the world 'cause it's one of my smaller debts and strangely enough... Despite my not paying this month, they sent me a statement saying my account was overdue and then refunded me some interest!!

Weird. but something I could get used to

Spam.

[Hopster]

how do I start a thread please ?

[Spamalot]

Originally Posted by Hopster

how do I start a thread please ?

Hi Hopster.

if you want to start a thread in the Barclaycard forum just go to the top of the page and scroll down the left hand side there will be a 'new thread button.

if you need more info there is this..

"How do I...?" A Dummies' Guide to this Forum

Good luck.

[Hopster]

thx

[slick132]

Steven says the agreement appears to be enforceable as it includes the Prescribed Terms, regardless of reference to conditions which are not included in the agreement itself.

As you have managed to read and type out the small print which we couldn't see clearly on photobucket, the document does not fail on the grounds of illegibility.

[Spamalot]

Originally Posted by slick132

Steven says the agreement appears to be enforceable as it includes the Prescribed Terms, regardless of reference to conditions which are not included in the agreement itself.

As you have managed to read and type out the small print which we couldn't see clearly on photobucket, the document does not fail on the grounds of illegibility.

Cool thanks... worth a try

I'll get back to paying them again...

Still...there's always the Goldfish Card... That was HFC as OC and if my marbles account is anything to go by.....

Thanks again. Spammie.

[the_shadow]

...of course being a devils advocate here.....

Is this a copy from a microfiche or is it a real paper agreement they have?

S.

[Spamalot]

I would think by the size of the copy it's a microfiche... it's only about a 1/3rd of an A4 page... why?

MSDWApplication.jpg picture by Spamalot_bucket - Photobucket

Thats the view before I 'cropped it'.. you can see the distance between the side and the bottom of the A4 page.

Also it's got the app form and what I think was a fold and seal bit with the financial parts tagged onto the bottom of the form.. In fact looking at it closely I'm not even sure if it's joined!!!

Spam.

[the_shadow]

Originally Posted by Spamalot

I would think by the size of the copy it's a microfiche... it's only about a 1/3rd of an A4 page... why?

Opens up a whole different kettle of fish if its a copy of a badly scanned microfiche if it ever gets to court.

The fact that this application would have been scanned by someone in MSDW and then its been sold to Barclaycard means it has a very suspect audit trail witnessed by the fact that Barclaycard's barrister has admitted to another CAGGER that they have a problem finding peoples old agreements as they were handed over in a state of chaos.

Being a copy means you can question this audit trail at court stage and Barclaysharks will now this.

S.

[Spamalot]

OOOOOOOOOOHHHH interesting! Thank you.. I won't give up yet then.

I think I shall demand a more legible copy and see what happens.. as I edited above, on closer inspection I'm not 100% sure that the terms are actually attached to the form because it's too blurry to see.

Thanks Shadow.

[the_shadow]

Originally Posted by Spamalot

OOOOOOOOOOHHHH interesting! Thank you.. I won't give up yet then.

I think I shall demand a more legible copy and see what happens.. as I edited above, on closer inspection I'm not 100% sure that the terms are actually attached to the form because it's too blurry to see.

Thanks Shadow.

I've gone back to read the relevant thread SMt37 vs barclaycard and as such have edited the comments in the post above.

S.

[Spamalot]

Hi all,


Just a teensy weensy query regarding the enforceabilty of the MSDW Application.

I cannot see a signature for MSDW anywhere on the paper copy that I have. (unless it's hiding in one of the black bits I can't read)

Would that make the agreement enforceable but improperly executed?

If so, what would be the implications of that if any?

I intend to get a more legible copy if poss but I'm still awaiting Subject Access Request's to see if there is a better one in there.

I've also had NOTHING back re my CA request with regards to my Goldfish account... not even a T&C.

Spam.

[the_shadow]

Originally Posted by Spamalot

Hi all,


Just a teensy weensy query regarding the enforceabilty of the MSDW Application.

I cannot see a signature for MSDW anywhere on the paper copy that I have. (unless it's hiding in one of the black bits I can't read)

Would that make the agreement enforceable but improperly executed?

If so, what would be the implications of that if any?

I intend to get a more legible copy if poss but I'm still awaiting Subject Access Request's to see if there is a better one in there.

I've also had NOTHING back re my CA request with regards to my Goldfish account... not even a T&C.

Spam.

If its not signed you are correct in that its not properly executed and therefore enforceable only by a court. However if this is the only thing wrong with it then the court would in my opinion enforce the agreement.

S.