BARCLAYCARD Round 2

[skintboy69]

Greetings troops. I hope Christmas went well for you all.

Here's another update - and I could do with a bit of advise as well.

BC actually got back to me on Christmas eve, a good bit earlier than they said. They have credited my account with the balance of their charges + a flat 8%.

I'm now of three minds (quite a feat for someone with a tiny brain )and I would really appreciate a bit of considered feedback. Here we go:

1) Accept the £xxx and consider it a result - which it's better than the proverbial poke in the eye etc.

2) Acknowledge receipt of a second part payment and ask them to come up with a mutually acceptable settlement.

3) File a claim for £xxxx and see what happens in court.

As usual, the interest they have charged is about 3x the actual charges. At present, I favour options 2 & 3 but I would welcome your combined wisdom.

Keep the faith.

T.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[slick132]

Hi Skint,

They won't negotiate with you or improve their offer, so forget option 2.

If you are confident of your understanding of interest and the reasons you want to claim it from BC, you could go for it. It is unlikely to be decided by a judge in court as BC are likely to negotiate a settlement at the last minute. Even just before the hearing on the day so you'll have to pay AQ and hearing fees up front.

You'll need full court bundles too.

If it gets too tough during the run up to your full court hearing, you can always back down and settle for the charges + flat 8%. You'd have to agree with BC about court fees.

	County Court guidebook by Judge Patricia Pearl Follow this link to read the review of this excellent Small Claims Guidebook. This comprehensive and very accessible guide will take you through the process of suing or defending a claim. This guide will help you take control of your litigation and make you more confident about doing it yourself. Applies to England and Wales

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[skintboy69]

Hi Slick. Thanks for coming back so quickly. Your reply is just what I expected - but we live in hope.....

I think I'll take this one all the way, though I know I'll need some help with the paperwork. Will you be around??

As to understanding the principals; my understanding, at present, is a little basic to say the least but I'm reading up on everything I can find on the site and I won't file until I'm sure of what I'm doing. I assume I can take my time at this stage.

From a legal point of view, I would have thought it obvious that if the charges are unlawful then any intrest added to those charges must be unlawful as well. (too simplistic??)

The court costs are not really an issue either as BC have already returned substantially more than that, however, if it goes to court and I lose what might their costs be? It would be small claims anyway.


Cheers, T.

[slick132]

Hi Skint,

If you're going for full interest, file now anyway as it'll be ages before you get to a hearing date, by which time, you'll hopefully be an int't expert.

Court costs shoulldn't be an issue as this should be Small Claims Track. Court fees can be negotiated on if you decide to withdraw your claim and accept just charges + 8% Statutory Int't.

(too simplistic??)

A bit, yes.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[skintboy69]

Hi Slick.

It makes perfect sense to me. Maybe I should give up engineering and be a judge. I'd soon set the world to rights.

Seriously though, thanks again for the help and advise. I'll try to get the papers to the court early next week.

Watch this space.

Keep the faith.

T.

[skintboy69]

OK I've just been going through the salient points of the 'SEMPRA' case. It's fascinating stuff.

Am I correct to assume that this case sets a precedence in law and can I resonably base my case on it, specifically unjust enrichment and restitution???

A word from the wise would be most welcome.

Keep the faith.

T.

[slick132]

Hey Skint,

Take a read through this - I've linked to page 3 of the thread but it may be interesting earlier too - mackerel vs barclaycard!

A word from the wise would be most welcome.

In that case, you'd better catch Noomill or Steven.....

I take it you've seen Steven4064's Interest Tutorial which I hope I linked through a post on page 1 of this thread.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[skintboy69]

Yo slick.

Thanks again for coming back.

Yes, I have read Steven's Interest Tutorial and I know I'll have to refer back to it when filling in the N1. I have a number of questions about that already but I'll leave them until a slightly later date.

I'm back in work tomorrow - just a skeleton crew - so I should have time to read up on that link you have given me and some more case law.

For now, the wine bottle calls; so sleep tight. (I know I will )

Keep the faith.

T.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[skintboy69]

I may be a little late here, but a very happy new year to us all.

Now, back to business.

I'm trying to sort my N1 and as I said last year - I need a little more help. I'lll number the questions to make it easy for me and perhaps I won't forget any!

1) 'Brief details of claim' - Money claim for the return of penalty charges + associated interest applied to the claiments credit card account by the defendant. Is this ok?

2) Point 19 of poc says 'The defendant has not repaid them or any of them'. In fact they have made 2 gestures of goodwill. Do I need to re-word this and if so with what? Or should I just leave it out altogether?

3) Point 19(2) - Payment of the said sum of £xxxx and interest in restitution of £xxxx at the defendant's normal interest rate of 29.9% compounded up until the date of claim and at a daily rate of ??% until judgment or sooner payment. How do I calculate the daily rate (of 29.9% ??)

4) I intended ommiting the sec 69 8%, Is that right?

5) And finally (for now at least) As BC have in fact already returned all the actual charges, should I change the details in 1) to claim fr interest only??


I have no doubt there will be more questions later, but a bit of advise on this lot would be most appreciated.

Keep the faith.

T.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[slick132]

I've asked a member of the Site Team to advise here, so your POC is done correctly.

[steven4064]

Skintboy

Happy New Year to you too. I have put my views below (in red)

Originally Posted by skintboy69

1) 'Brief details of claim' - Money claim for the return of penalty charges + associated interest applied to the claiments credit card account by the defendant. Is this ok? You might like to add the actual amounts

2) Point 19 of poc says 'The defendant has not repaid them or any of them'. In fact they have made 2 gestures of goodwill. Do I need to re-word this and if so with what? Or should I just leave it out altogether? I would just leav it out - what you have put is true

3) Point 19(2) - Payment of the said sum of £xxxx and interest in restitution of £xxxx at the defendant's normal interest rate of 29.9% compounded up until the date of claim and at a daily rate of ??% until judgment or sooner payment. How do I calculate the daily rate (of 29.9% ??) 29.9% per annum is 0.072%/day - my interest guides details the actual calculation

4) I intended ommiting the sec 69 8%, Is that right? You must - you cannot claim both by virtue of s69(4) of the County Courts Act 1984. You could put it as an alternative, but that is inviting the court to take the easy route and just give you that - if it gets to court, that is.

5) And finally (for now at least) As BC have in fact already returned all the actual charges, should I change the details in 1) to claim fr interest only?? Yes

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[skintboy69]

Hi Steven and thanks for the input.

I've just come off your 'Goldfish' thread and I see that you also opted for CCI but you appear to have included another level of interest i.e. charges plus interest levied (I assume that was also at contractual rate) and then more interest, also at compound rate for restitution based on Sempra.
Am I correct in my interpretation?? Would not the 2 figures be the same?

Cheers, T.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[skintboy69]

Slick, thanks a million for contacting Steven for me. I really cannot say how much help you've been.

Cheers, T.

[steven4064]

Originally Posted by skintboy69

I've just come off your 'Goldfish' thread and I see that you also opted for CCI but you appear to have included another level of interest i.e. charges plus interest levied (I assume that was also at contractual rate) and then more interest, also at compound rate for restitution based on Sempra.
Am I correct in my interpretation?? Would not the 2 figures be the same?

I claimed:

1. charges
2. interest they added to the charges estimated from my statements (this is also a charge)
3. interest in restitution on all the charges (actual charges plus the interest they added to the charges) - this was at their contractual rate

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[skintboy69]

Hi Steven. I assume you have a PhD in maths or something similar. I really need the version with BIG letters and pictures.

See if I've got it right this time. Take a single charge by way of example:

£24 taken 15th Jan 2004. interest @ 29.9% = £64.01 total = £88.01

you then apply 29.9% to £88.01 for restitution ???? That's going to be a big number.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[skintboy69]

Just as an afterthought, maybe the restitutional figure should be what they refer to as 'typical APR' which is going to be less than the massive 29.9%that I pay.

T.

[steven4064]

Originally Posted by skintboy69

Hi Steven. I assume you have a PhD in maths or something similar.

Actually, yes

Originally Posted by skintboy69

See if I've got it right this time. Take a single charge by way of example:

£24 taken 15th Jan 2004. interest @ 29.9% = £64.01 total = £88.01

you then apply 29.9% to £88.01 for restitution ???? That's going to be a big number.

Looks about right. However, I didn't do it that way as I think you need to take into account your repayments. What I did was to take the interest charge on each statement and estaimate how much of that was due to charges and how much to what I had actually borrowed. How I think it should be done is explained in the intreest tutorial.

Originally Posted by skintboy69

Just as an afterthought, maybe the restitutional figure should be what they refer to as 'typical APR' which is going to be less than the massive 29.9%that I pay.

Yes, you are probably right - about 14%-18% is probably more defensible.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[skintboy69]

Hi Steven.

You are, as ever, the fountain of all knowledge.

quote:
Actually, yes

Thought so. I'm still at abacus stage myself .

I've checked BC's website and their current 'typical' APR is 14.9% so I'll use that.

In your tutorial you say it is acceptable to calculate the restitution figure by applying their interest to the charges if the account was virtually at the limit for the entire period. This was the case with mine so I'll calculate it on that basis.

Would it be ok for me to e-mail you with my SOC for approval?
I intend using your POC (adapted to my case) if that's all right too. Obviously, I will have to use BC's terms & conditions rather than Goldfish's. Those on the 'sticky' are 2007. Will they be acceptable to the court or should I try to get a current set from BC?


Thanks again.

T.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[steven4064]

Originally Posted by skintboy69

Would it be ok for me to e-mail you with my SOC for approval?

It would be better if you posted it here - I prefer not to advise/commenty by PM unless there is a really good reason

Originally Posted by skintboy69

I intend using your POC (adapted to my case) if that's all right too.

That's fone, that's why I poisted so much detail.

Originally Posted by skintboy69

Obviously, I will have to use BC's terms & conditions rather than Goldfish's. Those on the 'sticky' are 2007. Will they be acceptable to the court or should I try to get a current set from BC?

I would try and get a current set or the ones ni force when you took out the agreement, if you stil lhave them.

[skintboy69]

Hi Steven. I saw the bit about e-mails etc at the bottom of your signature. I take your point.

Being a bit of a technophobe I might struggle attaching the SOC but I'll give it a go.

Cross EVERYTHING


Well blow me to Bermuda!!!! It worked.