Charges send over limit so they charge me!

[Wilma Shoozfit]

This has probably been asked before - so if someone can point me to the solutions I'd appreciate it.

I make regular payments to Barclaycard - but just lately I am in the spiral that in spite of paying over minimum payment and bringing the balance to the credit limit - PPI and interest take the account over the limit and they charge me for this. -Voila back to square one - I seem to be making endless payments just to keep my balance at the credit limit but not reducing the balance of the debt - Any suggestions what I should do?

The PPI was sold to me over the phone by a Barclaycard body - but after I had had the card for some years.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[slick132]

Hi Wilma and welcome to the BC forum. Love your username !

I have 3 suggestions for you:-

1) Is having the PPI appropriate for your circumstances - ie, if you claimed, would it pay out. Do you think it may have been mis-sold for any reason, in which case, you could reclaim the premiums paid.

2) If you're strapped for cash at the mo, can you afford it and do you really need it.

3) Have you worked out how much you've been charged in late pay't or over-limit penalties. You can reclaim all such charges and BC will refund them to your account, hopefully reducing the balance to a level which will keep you out of trouble.

Read the Guide to Reclaiming in Link No1 in my signature below for guidance. Also read through threads in the BC and the PPI forums to get an insight into what's happening in similar cases.

[Wilma Shoozfit]

Thanks for taking the time to reply to me.

Touching wood all around here my job is reasonably secure - and fairly healthy to boot (more wood please). I reckon that I don't really need the PPI. and the only thing it appears to be doing at the moment is increasing my debt to them. After a sticky history some 8 years ago I thought I'd managed to get my act together!


I've composed a letter to Barclaycard as follows:

I am in receipt of your recent statement and note that charges are being applied for “over credit limit” which have been brought about by the application of PPI and interest.

I was not told by your telesales person that PPI would be included with-in any credit limit and that “over limit” charges would be applied should in the event of the PPI charge take the balance over the agreed limit. I do not believe that consequences of agreeing to PPI were fully explained in your officer’s unsolicited call.

I therefore request that the PPI is cancelled forthwith and that such PPI payments, interest, additional interest charges and charges that have occurred due to this be refunded to my account forthwith.

With reference to the above agreement, I would be grateful if you would send me a copy of the credit agreement.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79), I am entitled to receive a copy of my credit agreement on request. I enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

We understand a copy of our credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days.


At this point I don't know if I need CCA - for the card - because that won't have any mention of the ppi on it - or just request a Subject Access Request so I can calculate the payments and charges. Or shall I leave out the request for either and see what they come back with?

[slick132]

Hi Wilma,

For the sake of the £1 fee, why not. It'll give you better leverage and, if they haven't got a valid CA, you can get any default markers taken off your CRA records regarding this a/c.

If you don't have all your a/c statements, send an Subject Access Request as a separate letter. If you DO have your state's, an Subject Access Request is unnecessary.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

	Credit Report Click link to open in new window.

[slick132]

Forgot to say,

Start a thread re the PPI aspect in the PPI forum when you're ready.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...insurance-ppi/

[Wilma Shoozfit]

Once again thanks for the input. - I'll CCA them - and then do a separate Subject Access Request - to calculate the PPI costs.

Letters will go recorded delivery on Monday

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[Wilma Shoozfit]

I sent a CCA request to Barclaycard together with a £1 postal order on the 29th September and it was signed for on the 30th September but as yet they haven't acknowledged receipt and they haven't cashed the postal order. I did make an online payment to them on the 29th that brought my balance back to with-in my credit limit. What should be my next move? Do I wait for my next bill to thud on my door mat or do I write to them to say the account is in dispute because they have not supplied me with a CCA? It is not my intention to NOT pay them -I have had the card for about 6 years now - but I would like to get back some of the charges, the ppi and re-negotiate the high interest rate they have applied and hopefully reduce the debt .

	Disputed account materials Follow this link to our library of materials to help you try to deal with the problems of defaults on disputed accounts. It is contrary to Information Commissioner guidelines and also contrary to the banking code to default disputed accounts. However, it happens all the time.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[slick132]

Give them a few more days, then sind this letter, carefully adapted to reflect your case.

Dear Sir/Madam,

FORMAL COMPLAINT A/c no. xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

On the **DATE** I wrote to you requesting a copy of the credit agreement and other information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79).

On **DATE** a member of your staff signed for delivery of my written request and I have an electronic proof of delivery showing their signature and the date.

To date you have failed to comply with these requests in any way, whether by confirmation of receipt of the request or by supplying the requested documents.

These documents I requested should be readily available as proof of your legal right to collect this account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

In my letter of the **DATE** I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, executed credit agreement for the above account under section 77(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you enter into a default situation.

This limit has expired.

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

You have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’. You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY
Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.
* You may not pass the account to a third party.
* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.
* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.


I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.
You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

Despite my letter regarding ANY communication from your company, which stated that I require ALL communications in writing, your telephone calls continue.

This behaviour constitutes harassment; the letters stated quite clearly to you that I require ALL communications in writing for future use. Do not telephone me again - remove any telephone numbers you hold for me from your systems.

Your telephone calls are in breach of the Office of Fair Trading guidelines. If you continue with them after the receipt of this letter an official complaint, together with a log recording the times and frequency of the calls will be passed both to that office and to the Trading Standards office. For your information note that ALL telephone calls are taped.

This type of debt collection method is contrary to the ‘Administration of Justice Act 1970’ in that it is intended to cause alarm and distress to the recipient. Your methods will not be tolerated. A formal complaint, containing copies of all correspondence including yours, has now been submitted to the relevant authorities. This will be relevant to questions of your fitness to hold a licence under the Consumer Credit Act, whether or not it results in a prosecution.

Take further note that continued telephone calls after the receipt of a request not to call may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003.

Communicate in writing and ONLY in writing, your telephone calls will NOT be answered.

HOWEVER, CALLS WILL TRIGGER COMPLAINTS TO THE REGULATORY BODIES.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully

	Record your calls Follow this link to read the review of the Truecall telephone recorder and call manager. This is the Rolls Royce of call recorders. It's a bit pricey but if you buy it with our special offer you will get it at cost: about 20% discount. How much do we make on the deal? - Nothing at all. You can also buy cheaper devices from Maplins. Truecall is the best - but the important thing is to record your calls.

	Debt collection library Follow this link to our debt collection library. This library contains templates and advice for dealing with debt collectors who act oppressively or unfairly. This library is work in progress and will be built up over the next few weeks. 17.03.09

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

	Credit Report Click link to open in new window.

[Wilma Shoozfit]

Thanks for keeping an eye on me Slick - it's appreciated
I have been making monthly payments - usually to get the balance back down to the limit and so far I've not had any letters or calls from them so a fair chunk of that letter won't apply (yet!). I'll re-hash it and get it sent at the end of the week. By then I'll probably have my next statement from them

[Wilma Shoozfit]

I have been looking at my latest statement (another one should be due out any day) I have noticed that they have put on the following statement:

Changes to your Barclaycard statement
A reminder that from the 1st October 2008, following changes to consumer legislation, we are making some changes to your conditions as well as including additional messages to your statement.

Does anyone know what "conditions" they refer to?

Also I still haven't recieved a copy of the CCA that I requested, the letter was signed for but the postal order hasn't been cashed as of last week.
So I'll be sending a Subject Access Request letter tomorrow with a £10.00 postal order.

If someone has a minute to look it over I'd appreciate it.




Department LRC
Barclaycard House
1234 Pavilion Drive
Northampton
NN4 7SG


DATA PROTECTION ACT 1998

SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST


Dear Sir/Madam

Your name

Account Nº

Under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79), I requested a copy of my credit agreement on 29th September. I forwarded payment £1.00 which represented the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

This request was sent recorded delivery and signed for by R Judd on the 30th September. but as of the date of this letter my request remains unacknowledged nor has a copy of the CCA been forwarded.

Therefore please be advised :


THIS ACCOUNT IS NOW IN DISPUTE


Section 77(6) of the Consumer Credit Act states:

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement, therefore until such time as this is resolved the account becomes unenforceable by law.

Please note that this letter is my statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to for your company to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY
action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.


· You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
· You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.
· You may not pass the account to a third party.
· You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.
· You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

Should you do so I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

I understand that you currently hold details of my personal and financial information within your internal record systems with regard to a personal credit card.

Please supply me with a complete list of transaction and charges relating to my history with your organization, INCLUDING credit card and payment protection insurance. Alternatively a complete set of statements for the credit card, which will be acceptable.
I would be grateful if you would provide the following for any accounts or associated accounts I have held with your organization:

· -Full copies of all contracts which you believe exist or have existed between myself and your organization, including true copies of any documents you hold in support of the same
· - A complete list of all transactions or statements relating to ALL of my credit cardwith your organization since inception.
· -Copies of all documents which include any of my personal information including copies of any contacts or invoices, emails or computer records containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information.
· -Full copies or transcripts of any correspondence in postal, email or any other format which you have entered into with any individual, organization or third party which contains my personal or financial, or which pertains to me.
· - Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposed of, the methods used to do so, including dates, certificates or references confirming details of destruction. Where you are unable to provide such certificates, please provide a declaration, signed by an authorised officer of your company, confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.
· -Full hard copy print outs of my personal or financial information, held in a digital, magnetic or any other format which is held in any archives, backups or other storage devices / locations.

I enclose payment in the sum of £10 to cover your fee.

IF YOU UNABLE TO DEAL WITH THIS REQUEST, YOU SHOULD IMMEDIATELY FORWARD IT TO THE PERSON WITHIN YOUR ORGANISATION RESPONSIBLE FOR DATA PROTECTION.

I look forward to hearing from you in the first instance of receipt and confirmation that your company has ceased processing data as previously mentioned.


Yours faithfully

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[slick132]

Hi Wilma,

I think you should send 2 separate letters.

The 1st to chase up the CCA request will include all the CCA stuff included in my draft or your version.

The 2nd will be the Subject Access Request enclosing the £10 fee.

Keeping the 2 issues separate will help BC stay focused on what is required in each respect.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[Wilma Shoozfit]

Good morning Slick - thanks again - I'll do that - It won't let me tip your scales again!

I don't do much posting on the site but I do lurk a lot - Learning a bit more every day! If I can get my charges and ppi back from Barclays I'll be a happy bunny!
Who knows I might even go after crap one and get my charges back from them! But let's learn to walk before I start running eh?

[slick132]

Hi Wilma,

Thanks for the thought anyway.

Don't wait to get started on your next claim - just get on with it and shout if you need any help.

[gigs]

Originally Posted by slick132

3) Have you worked out how much you've been charged in late pay't or over-limit penalties. You can reclaim all such charges and BC will refund them to your account, hopefully reducing the balance to a level which will keep you out of trouble.

Hi, just curious, are these the £12 late fees and over-credit fees?

I thought you couldn't get these fees back because they're under £12.50?

[Wilma Shoozfit]

Over credit fees, PPI and interest at an exhorbitant rate (currently 29.9%apr presumably because I have gone over the credit limit). For the past few months I have been paying enough to bring the balance down under the credit limit. The following month on goes the PPI then the over credit charge topped off by the extortionate interest.

They haven't acknowledged or replied to my CCA request that they got on the 30th Sept. I've sent an account in dispute letter and a Subject Access Request letter this week so I can look back at old charges - interest etc. Not sure whether I can claim them back or not - time will tell.
So far I've heard nothing - nada - zilch. They haven't even sent me this month's statement of account so I don't know if they've stopped the charges .

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[slick132]

Originally Posted by gigs

I thought you couldn't get these fees back because they're under £12.50?

That's news to me.

BC and others are repaying fees in full, whether they are £12 or any other figure they've charges in unlawful penalties.

[Wilma Shoozfit]

There's hope for me yet!

[Wilma Shoozfit]

Still no acknowledgement from B/card re my CCA request that they received on 30/09/08. My two letters sent on 20/10/08 haven't shown up on Royal Mail tracker and they told me when I phoned that they were behind with inputting onto the system so couldn't tell me whether they had been delivered or not.

Funnily enough I did get my monthly statement from B/card and they have deducted PPI in spite of me cancelling it last month.

I have made a payment to them which covers my over credit balance and next months estimated interest. Trouble with doing this tho is they will probably continue to ignore me as long as they're getting their money.

Should I write to them telling to cancel the PPI again or am I being too hasty?

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[slick132]

Quick letter to BC telling them the PPI has been cancelled and would they kindly amend your last state't accordingly.

Wait re the follow-up letters, at least until you see when they were signed for. No point in firing letters off every few days. They clearly can't get their act together.

Even if you withhold payment, this will only trigger Mercers into contacting you with threatograms. But I think this should be your next option if they continue to ignore you.

[Wilma Shoozfit]

I sent the No CCA -account in dispute letter and the Subject Access Request letter, both recorded on the 20th October and I have been chasing Royal Mail for a POD. They’ve told me that there isn’t one available for either letter so I need to make a claim.

I’ve also checked up on the postal orders and neither the £1.00 postal order from the CCA request (this letter I have a signature for) nor the £10.00 Subject Access Request fee have been cashed.

But lo and behold I got a letter from BC today!!

The letter came from the PO Box address in Northampton and I think it’s in answer to my CCA request it says……….

(pause for dramatic effect…….)


4th November

Dear Wilma
Thank you for contacting us. Enclosed with this letter is a copy of your Barclaycard Terms and Conditions. If you need any extra information or if you’ve any questions then visit our website www.barclaycard…….. or give us a call.

Thank you for choosing Barclaycard. We appreciate your custom.

Huh???? My gaster is well and truly flabbered!

And yes, they did enclose a copy of their current terms and conditions.

Perhaps the CCA request was too wordy for them? I think the only bit they understood was “Terms and Conditions” and they’ve blanked the rest.

The other two letters will be re-sent Monday with another £10.00 together with
A request for my PPI refund from when I cancelled
A nice letter in response to their communication of the 4th and I shall try to use words of one syllable.
The whole shooting match will be sent Special delivery this time in one large envelope. I know Slick advised me to send separately so as to keep them focused on each aspect – but I figure the only way that will happen is if I write to them one sentence at a time on a post it note and stick on their foreheads and include a crib sheet to explain the big words.


I wish I hadn’t paid the beggars now!