Charges send over limit so they charge me!

[Wilma Shoozfit]

All I wanted was to re-claim my charges - but I didn't realise that B/C would be such a pain in the but-tocks

Brief run down of events - to save reading the whole thread:

29/09/08 Consumer Credit Agreement request
PPI enquiry and cancellation
Received: Copy of current B/C Terms and conditions
Copy of B/C Terms and conditions for 2004

20/10/08 Non compliance letter for CCA request posted
Personal Data Subject Access request for ALL information held
11/11/08
Received: Incomplete set of statements only

12/11/08 Sent Copy of CCA request (which includes PPI cancellation)
Copy of CCA Non-Compliance
Non Compliance of Subject Access Request request
Letter requesting refund of October PPI

19/11/08
Received: Letter from Sxxxxxx Axxxx refuting PPI cancellation advising me that “you will pay” as a “Final response”.
20/11/08
recieved Letter from S** B*** advising
1. Statements have been requested
2.Requesting further details of requirements for Subject Access Request
3. Advising that PPI response has been sent.

By my calculations come Monday the 40 days are up for the Subject Access Request request. I still haven't had a copy of the credit agreement, missing statements have not turned up and they're still applying PPI, charges and interest to the account.

I am paying the account, no defaults have been issued (although they have probably made some comment on my credit file about being over the card limit) nor have I had any calls from them.

Now I know that the next step would be a LBA re court enforcement for them to provide the statements and a true copy of the CCA. and to wait to see what appears.
I have prepared a letter as per Slick's suggestion asking for refund of PPI, charges and interest but haven't sent it as yet.
Because.....
I am contemplating sending a letter to them asking them, in view of lack of documentation, to write off about 2/3 of the balance of the account which is made up of part of the b/fwd balance on the 04/07 statement and known charges from available statements + interest. I have said that I will pay the balance on installments per their monthly statements. It's either that or provide an enforceable CCA.

Am I correct in that this letter should be sent "with-out predjudice" in the event they turn down my offer and can't produce the statements and CCA and I need to go down the court route?

Has anybody made an such an offer under similar circumstances with any success?

	Small Claims kit by Lawpack Sue your bank as many times as you like with just one Small Claims kit by Lawpack. Follow this link to read the review. The kit contains everything you need: instruction manual, templates, examples, forms and a comprehensive CDRom. Applies to England and Wales

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

	Credit Report Click link to open in new window.

[slick132]

Hi Wilma,

I think you're right to keep trying to get ALL the a/c statements before reclaiming the charges. So send the Subject Access Request LBA when they've had their 40 days.

As regards a request that they write off 2/3rds of the balance, I'm not sure this is a way forward because:-

1) Either they have a valid Credit Agreement or they don't and, therefore, the debt will be enforceable or not.

2) I don't think they'll negotiate with you in this way (they'd leave that to the likes of Mercers or other DCA's further down the line).

3) You can reclaim your charges to reduce the a/c balance.

My advice would be to pursue the missing a/c state's. In this regard, have a look here as there are references to success in getting data - Barclaycard Contact Address

	Small Claims kit by Lawpack Sue your bank as many times as you like with just one Small Claims kit by Lawpack. Follow this link to read the review. The kit contains everything you need: instruction manual, templates, examples, forms and a comprehensive CDRom. Applies to England and Wales

	Debt collection library Follow this link to our debt collection library. This library contains templates and advice for dealing with debt collectors who act oppressively or unfairly. This library is work in progress and will be built up over the next few weeks. 17.03.09

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[Wilma Shoozfit]

Ah well - It was just a thought. I'll send the charges / PPI letter and dig about for the LBA. I can send them both to Ms Brown, She's at the 1234 Pavilion Address. She's the bod that works in the Data Protection Offices and wrote the last letter to me.

Wils

	Small Claims kit by Lawpack Sue your bank as many times as you like with just one Small Claims kit by Lawpack. Follow this link to read the review. The kit contains everything you need: instruction manual, templates, examples, forms and a comprehensive CDRom. Applies to England and Wales

[slick132]

Hi Wilma,

I think I put the link for the LBA in post #28.

Do separate letters for each subject or there's a chance that one dep't will not fwd a copy of your letter to another.

	Small Claims kit by Lawpack Sue your bank as many times as you like with just one Small Claims kit by Lawpack. Follow this link to read the review. The kit contains everything you need: instruction manual, templates, examples, forms and a comprehensive CDRom. Applies to England and Wales

[Wilma Shoozfit]

I haven't sent any correspondence to BC since their last letter, but today I recieved a letter from the in response to my complaint for none compliance to CCA request.

I know, it's Christmas Eve day and there's last minute shopping and stuff like that to do. But if any-one's got a minute over the next few days to have a look at the letter Barclaycard have sent me and comment on it I'd appreciate it.

I've loaded onto photobucket together with the T & C's they sent me in response to my CCA request.

BC still haven't sent the missing statements so I'm no further forward in claiming back my charges.










I hope I've done this right

[Wilma Shoozfit]

Well - I've been reading around looking for anyone who's got this kind of letter but I can't find one - and my brain's going to mush. So I've cobbled together a letter using the bones of PT2537 "template letter" for CPR part 31.16 disclosure and will be posting it next time I venture out. I'll send it to our Colin in "Court Orders and Disclosures department". Is this where I report them to OFT, TS or does that come later?

[tosh1]

Hi Wilma Shoozfit

I got exactly the same letter from Colin and sent a cpr 31.16 requst. Good Luck

[Wilma Shoozfit]

Hi Tosh - thanks for comimg back - I've been searching the site for days to see if anyone else has had a letter like this - I've even downloaded a copy of the "Act " to read the section they quote .

78.—(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of 15 new pence , shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any)

(must be a really old version of the act!)

I'm now searching to see what interpretation of (if any) the more knowledgeable folks have to say on this. I've seen it sonewhere - but beggared if I can remember where. I think it's in PT's thread but don't think I can face trawling thru it all again!

You'd think with all this reading I'd get a better handle on this - but I think my poor old brain is suffering form over-load

[tosh1]

Hi WM

I suggest that you read the following thread.

why you shouldnt use section 77/78 CCA 1974 if you want the signed agreement

I also tried reading the cca74 and gave up after 10 minutes.

[steven4064]

Wilma

What they have sent you is not a copy of an enforceable agreement but it deos comply with s78 of the CCA 1974. I doubt you will get anything out of them and, because they have complied, you don't have any leverage with them on that front.

Much better to do as slick said and pursue the Data Protection Act stuff. Once you have that, you can reclaim charges, PPI and interest on both. You may well find that this tots up to more than the 2/3 anyway.

Credit card charegs are much easier to claim ATM than bank charges - they are not subject to the ongoing litigation between the banks and OFt and they are more obviously contract penalties. If you get the data, put in a preliminary claim, follow up with LBAand threat of cour, you will get back the lot - charges, PPI and interest on both - I suggest at theiur normal rate of 18% plus, compounded.

While you are waiting for the data, read up about the process, particulary interest - have alook at my tutorial and my Goldfish thread.

	Bank Charges You should have started your claim for your bank charges by now. Don't wait. You should send your bank a Subject Acess Request asking for all personal data they hold on you - not just statements. You should calculate all of your bank charges and related interest as far back as 1995. You should send your bank a demand for a refund giving them 7 days. You should commence your legal action adding 8% statutory interest. If you wait for the outcome of the test case, you may not be able to claim like this. you may not be able to claim interest. You may only be offered the difference between the charge and the OFT "fair charge". The repayment scheme will try to limit you to refinds from 2001 only. A repayment scheme will not deal with any bank charges related defaults on the credit register whereas in a court action you can ask for these to be removed and to be compensated for the damage caused to you and your family by them. You should also write to the bank and to the CRA and put all charges related credit entries in disupte and warn them that you will want them removed from the Register when the test case is over. Warn them also that you are likely to be seeking compensation for these wrongful data entries. Full and final settlement Have you previously accepted a partial repayment of your bank charges in full settlement? You will still be able to claim the rest of your money back after the Test case is decided. Get all your information back to 1995 and put in your claim now.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[Wilma Shoozfit]

Cheers for that Steve -

I'll hang fire and see if they respond to the "CPR" letter and send the rest of the statements without, these I can't claim all my charges back.
Then I'll take it from there.

[steven4064]

Hoiw many statements have you got and how many are missing?

In my GE Money calim, there were a few random statements missing so we interpolated the missing ones - if the statement before or after a misssing statement had charges, we assumed that the missing statement did too. GE Money paid up.

[Wilma Shoozfit]

I don't really know I have some statements with one card number dated
21/03/03 to 20/09/06 however from 11/04-09/06 they show a nil balance.

I then have statments for a separate card number that start in 23/03/07 with a brought forward balance. (The date incidently coincides when I had my card stolen.)

So chronologically there are 6 statements missing.

I would have thought that there would have been more information in the Subject Access Request response which would have indicated some of the what, where and whyfores of the account as I did ask for full disclosure includung all statements, notes on the account and a copy of the signed CCA.

Wils

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[steven4064]

Originally Posted by Wilma Shoozfit

I would have thought that there would have been more information in the Subject Access Request response which would have indicated some of the what, where and whyfores of the account as I did ask for full disclosure includung all statements, notes on the account and a copy of the signed CCA.

You would think, wouldn't you. What you have got seems pretty standard aunless you really press them.

What's with the 2 years' zero balance?

[Wilma Shoozfit]

I paid a lump sum off the card and didn't use it for a while I think that they possibly thought I'd closed the account because they didn't send me a new card when the old one expired - I had to phone them to ask why they hadn't sent one - this was about 3-5 months after the old card died. They said Whoops sorry and sent another but I couldn't tell you what the card number was or when they sent it. (Judging by the Subject Access Request neither can they)

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[steven4064]

I think you should press them for the statements 09/06 to 03/07

[Wilma Shoozfit]

I've written to them they wrote back 20/11/08 saying they would pass it to the correct area (must be area 51) but so far nothing- We'll see what the disclosure under CPR brings - I've just realised that I sent a variation of PT's Nº 2 letter instead of number Nº 1. I don't know if that will cause problems Ah well c'est la vie!

If they don't reply after 21/01 I will send a 7 day reminder then and I guess if that dosen't work it'll be a 14 day LBA. I think 4½ months is a reasonable time frame for them to produce the info.

I've also whipped out another letter re the PPI asking them to refund the charge from October to December together with over limit charges and interest on these. This time I have asked them to produce T & C's that say that the "Optional" PPI can't be cancelled as they refuse to acknowledge my cancellation.

	Small Claims kit by Lawpack Sue your bank as many times as you like with just one Small Claims kit by Lawpack. Follow this link to read the review. The kit contains everything you need: instruction manual, templates, examples, forms and a comprehensive CDRom. Applies to England and Wales

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[Wilma Shoozfit]

Well another quick post - Got a couple of letters back from B/C - more terms and conditions - on my way to getting 3 of a kind! No mention of my letter for the CPR disclosure so I've whipped off a letter asking them to confirm if this is their reponse and letting them know they still got a couple of weeks to reply!

I kept this letter short - I don't think they have enough attention span to get to the end of a long letter. Which is probably why I only ever get half an answer from them

[Wilma Shoozfit]

Another set of T n C's (cancellation form)- I've now got three of a kind!

In Spite of the CPR request there's still no sign of the signed agreement, in fact I haven't had anything at all with my name on it signed or otherwise! The missing statements are still missing. To top it all they're still charging me for the cancelled PPI, interest and over credit limit fee.

Stroppy letter has been dispatched re the PPI - Let's see if they ignore that!

I think a gentle but firm reminder is required for Mr S to advise him that the time is running out for the CPR and how I may have to consider seriously about with- holding any more payments to them if I don't they don't cough up with the paperwork! See if that makes a difference!

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[ouch123]

Hi WS - I recieved a similar response from BC regarding CCA request. Also, concidering CPR route and watching your thread with interest.

Cheers and Goodluck.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.