Barclaycard wont accept payment.

[circatrova]

Hi Slick,
Quick update:
I posted the Curly Ben chase up letter you suggested on 18th August asking them to reply within 7days (recorded del),and still can you believe it nothing they have just totally ignored both my CCA requests and chase up letter.
I am at a loss as what to do next.
Could you please advise what my next step should be?.
I have continued to make payments.
Regards Circa

[slick132]

Report the matter to the FOS and to Trading Standards.

Stop making payments to them, but put the money aside each week or month so you have it ready when they are willing to be nicer to you.

Drop BC a letter telling them, as they are In Default by not responding to your letters and request, you will pay them no more.

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

[circatrova]

Thanks for prompt reply Slick,
But one ,more question, If I stop payments to them is this likely to precipitate legal action from them or balance moved to a DCA.
In other words what is most likely to happen next ?

Thanks in advance Circa

	Debt collection library Follow this link to our debt collection library. This library contains templates and advice for dealing with debt collectors who act oppressively or unfairly. This library is work in progress and will be built up over the next few weeks. 17.03.09

[slick132]

As BC are ignoring your CCA request and other letters, you'd be daft to just continue paying them.

They'll refer the matter to Mercers (their in-house collection arm) or another collection service but this is inevitable. The alternative is that you continue to pay them and they just ignore your reasonable and proper requests.

Do you have your state's for the a/c so you can quantify the amount of penalty charges they've made on the a/c. Claiming these back is the next logical step.

If you don't have the nec'y state's, it's time to send BC an Subject Access Request. See the Reclaiming Guide in link No1 in my signature below. I think it's time you put your boots on in preparation to kick BC's bottom.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[circatrova]

Slick,
Thanks for that.I havent done an S.A.R,because there is little or no charges/penalties on the account as it was always run in good order until I became ill.
Will give this some further thought.
Many Thanks

[slick132]

Ahaa,

Then don't bother with the Subject Access Request.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[bazaar]

Hi just subbing, you dont need to Subject Access Request them as this is admitting a debt AFAIK. Its quite simple, no Credit Agreement, No payment, make sure you save all the correspondence etc, and sit tight til they try to make a move
good luck

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[circatrova]

he Bazaar,

[circatrova]

Hello Slick or anyone helpfull,
Does anybody know of a good letter to say you are now in default and I will not be paying until CCA is produced,in a more elequent authoritive manner of course.
I mean just what do you do when Barclycard just ignore all your correspondence and I can predict will come on all strong with legal threats for non payment?
Any help appreciated.

[slick132]

Hi Circa,

I think you've pretty much said what's needed in post #29 and there's no need for any eloquence.

I'd write to confirm you will make no more pay'ts until they have the decency to respond to your letters. Then wait for them to make the next move.

Oh, and don't forget to report BC's failings to the FOS and Trading Standards.

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

[circatrova]

Hi Slick,
Can you or anyone help me with this,just rang the F.O.S to complain about Barclay card totally ignoring 2 written requests for CCA and lady told me it was nothing to do with them and not the sort of complaint they deal with and I must go to the Information commisioners as it is just a case of them not giving me information I have requested?.

Any help on this would be much appreciated .
Regards Circa.

[slick132]

Hi Circa,

Speak to the Information Commissioners Office - Information Commissioner's Office - ICO and see what they suggest.

[circatrova]

Hi Slick finally got a response from B.C .
As I have 2 CC accounts I requested 2 copies of CCA one for each account .
They have sent a very poor photocopy of a leaflet with terms and conditions on it,there is nothing filled in by anyone and obviously no signiture from myself.I dont think I need to post this up for acknowledgement of it not being the true agreement,but can you advise me on what next,are there any good letters to send when there is no proper CCA in place?.
On the second account they sent a letter saying they needed more to for their investigations.
All would be appreciated.
Circa

[bazaar]

Hi Circa
take a look in the templates section there is a letter you can use for this. just amend it to suit your situation, post back if you need more

[slick132]

Hi Circa,

This should do but amend it carefully as nec'y to suit your case:-

Dear Sir or Madam,

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE - Account Number: XXX

I refer to your letter of xxxx sent in reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

I note that you have replied to the above by sending a copy of your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a "true copy" of the agreement.

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, "the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form." This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

And more importantly

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

The regulations state:
(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-
(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;
(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancellable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions. It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable. I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that, whilst the request has not been complied with, the default continues.

Yours faithfully,

Circatrova

[circatrova]

Hi Slick,thank you for your help,can you just clarify for me:
Iam I understanding the item correctly under what may be omitted?
Siginature?,is that correct that a signiture or signiture box as in,

"The regulations state:
(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-
(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;
(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancellable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies); "


Shouldnt it read may not be omitted?if not could you please explain in laymans terms,

All help appreciated,
Regards Circa

[circatrova]

Originally Posted by bazaar

Hi Circa
take a look in the templates section there is a letter you can use for this. just amend it to suit your situation, post back if you need more

Hi Bazaar,thanks ,had a look cant find anything suitable,would you be kind enough to help.
Many Thanks,
Circa

[bazaar]

Originally Posted by circatrova

Hi Bazaar,thanks ,had a look cant find anything suitable,would you be kind enough to help.
Many Thanks,
Circa

Slicks letter should more than put the point accross

[circatrova]

Originally Posted by bazaar

Slicks letter should more than put the point accross

Yep thanks for that Bazarr,but Slicks letter also confuses me with the legal speak from the Consumer credit act/law.
Thats why I asked for a brief description in Laymans terms to the part I had Highlighted.
Or if you can point me to the correct letter in the templates libruary,(maybe a more concise version)because I do not understand which bits are relevant to me in Slicks letter,

Hope you can help me ,
Many thanks

[slick132]

Hi Circa,

The letter is correct in confirming what may be omitted under SI 1983 1557.

I suggest you enter the correct date in para 1 of the letter and fire it off.

You're quite right in wanting to understand what you are doing and you'll find information about this by reading up on the Consumer Credit Act. Or try Googling SI 1983/1557.