fine for no seat belt now with the bailiffs

ajjars · 25th April 2007, 13:31

Hi all,
Hope someone can help me. My son got an on the spot fine back in sept for not wearing a seat belt. At the time he was living here at home. He has since moved out. We didn't know anything about it til 4th April we got a letter for him from Drakes Bailiffs. The fine had escalated to £45 and they had added a £50 charge to it. I wrote back to Drakes (with proof of posting) on 10th April and said that my son no longer lived here but we (me and my husband) would pay the fine. We asked them to send a payment book or something that we could make payments with and we would pay £20 per month. I stated in the letter that my son did not live here, he had no property here, and there would be no reason to visit or write again and add more charges. My son is unemployed and living with a relative at the moment. I have told them I do not know where he is. We heard nothing back.

Today I got home from work to find a removal notice on the side in my kitchen (don't know how it got there) saying that they had come to remove goods. The debt was now £295. I rang the Bailiff and asked how come this was now £295. He said he had added £100 for his visit today. When I went ballistic because I had already told them there was no need to visit in my letter, he agreed to take the £100 for today off. I didn't twig at the time because I was so angry that the debt was only £95 on 4th April so I agreed to pay him £195 next Wednesday morning (he wants to come at 6am before I leave for work). When I got off the phone and checked the paperwork I realised that £200 has been added and not £100 as he said. I rang him straight back and he reckons I must have had a visit before or a letter, or that its admin costs. I told him I know they are not allowed to add admin fees to this or VAT. He doesn't believe me when I said the initial amount was £95 so he asked for proof. Basically he has no idea what the initial amount was, and what has been added or why. I told him I was not paying him a penny until he showed me a full breakdown of what I was paying for. I have now faxed the initial letter from them to their offices and my letter to them on 10th April plus the proof of posting. They are trying to rip me off.

He says that they will not accept instalments. Can they refuse to accept payment by instalments? Also, when I have read about Bailiff fees it says that they have no set fees for traffic fines only that they have to be reasonable and proportionate. £250 fees for a £45 fine reasonable???? Well who do I go to to see if they agree that these fees are not reasonable? Who determines what is and what is not reasonable? I need to get this sorted before the charges get out of hand - but how do I do this whilst trying to sort it out?

I am really stressed, I have had 2 rows with the Bailiff already, and expect another ....... I gave him my phone number to ring me back when he gets my fax ......

Help someone please!!

The Watcher · 25th April 2007, 14:55

I would write to the bailiff firm again (recorded delivery) and enclose a copy of the original letter (saying that your son does not live there anymore) and have nothing further to do with them.

They can only levy against the debtor's goods (or goods jointly owned by the debtor).

Herbie · 25th April 2007, 15:40

Sorry to hear about this, Sorry to say bu this is serious.

First thing, could you please pm me with the name of the bailiff, I will run a check for you to see if he is Certifcated....he has to be under the contract with HMCS

This matter should be brought to the attention IMMEDIATELY of the Fines Officer at the Magistrates Court as they have the responsibility to deal with this. This is NOT your debt but is your son's. this bailiff has realised that you are willing to pay someones else's debt and is clearly taking advantage of it. The bailiff contract with Her Majesty's Court clearly states that they can ONLY enforce any action against the person who owes this money.

Although these fees ARE NOT payable by you, by way of advice to others, Drakes Group can charge the following:

An administration/first letter fee of £50

An attendance fee of £100.

If they have to immobilise or remove a vehicle the fees do increase, but the fees are capped at £200 UP TO when they actually remove etc. Rather complicated I know, but I have the full figures if anyone requires them.

ajjars · 25th April 2007, 16:06

Thanks guys for the replies.

I spoke to the Bailiff again and he is now saying that the extra £100 added to the initial £95 is "admin" charges. He says that when he got this warrant it was for £195. He added the other £100 today for the visit. I have received no other communication from Drakes other than the first letter which states £45 Fine £50 Bailiff costs. So what can they be adding money on for?
I have done a letter up for Drakes today and I think I will copy in the court as well. I will mark it FAO the fines officer as advised by Herbie.

Thanks again for your help guys - much appreciated.

Ajjars

(I cannot believe all this agro for a £30 fine for not wearing a seat belt!)

Incidentally when I spoke to the Bailiff again the line was really bad and he said "oh, I'm driving my van right now". Lets hope he got an on the spot fine! (oh, and the 3 points!!).

setmefree · 25th April 2007, 16:12

I agree with Herbie it's not your debt, maybe you were a bit foolish offering to pay his fine at your address.
Inform the Bailiff's that you will call the police if they turn up,as the person on the warrant does not live there.

ajjars · 25th April 2007, 16:38

Setmefree,

My son will be returning shortly to this address, so I thought it best to clear the debt for him. It would only have got much worse when they found out he was home. God knows how much it would be otherwise.

I have typed out my letter to the court, will copy the correspondence I have received and send that off with it.

My eldest son says he was leaving for work when the Bailiff turned up this morning and that he was questioning my 17 year old on the doorstep. Don't know what he was asking him as he is not home yet. But I know they are not supposed to talk to minors.

setmefree · 25th April 2007, 16:45

You certainly are a caring parent well done, good luck with your letter,if justice prevails then i'm sure the fleas of a thousand camels will infest that bailiff's butt.

ajjars · 25th April 2007, 16:54

Please god!!!! lol

PizzaMaker · 26th April 2007, 17:37

It seems that the original fine was £30 and as it was not paid within 28 or 45 days to the police, it has now been passed over to the bailiffs.

A £50 admin charge increases the fine to £95. Once assigned to the bailiff a fee of £100 is added. If you look at the HMCS website, it sets out the fees allowed to be applied by bailiff companies under the contract with HMCS.

ajjars · 26th April 2007, 21:43

Hi,

When you say £100 was added by the bailiff, what is this for? The initial letter said fine of £45, bailiff fees £50 (I assume for the letter) = £95, so why would they then add another £100? They can't just add money to it for no reason. The next £100 was added for a visit, despite me writing to them and telling them not to visit because he doesn't live here. In the letter I also offered to pay it in instalments to pay it off on behalf of my son. They didn't reply.

I think it's disgusting that they can just add what they like and force you to pay it. On other websites it says that the maximum some bailiffs can charge you is £24.50 for a visit. How come this lot can charge £100? It's a right rip off ........

itsamomentintime · 26th April 2007, 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herbie

First thing, could you please pm me with the name of the bailiff, I will run a check for you to see if he is Certifcated....he has to be under the contract with HMCS

did you manage to find out if they are certified?

PizzaMaker · 27th April 2007, 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajjars

Hi,

When you say £100 was added by the bailiff, what is this for? The initial letter said fine of £45, bailiff fees £50 (I assume for the letter) = £95, so why would they then add another £100? They can't just add money to it for no reason. The next £100 was added for a visit, despite me writing to them and telling them not to visit because he doesn't live here. In the letter I also offered to pay it in instalments to pay it off on behalf of my son. They didn't reply.

I think it's disgusting that they can just add what they like and force you to pay it. On other websites it says that the maximum some bailiffs can charge you is £24.50 for a visit. How come this lot can charge £100? It's a right rip off ........

As previously mentioned, the bailff cost to attend on a magistrate court warrant is £100. This was set by HMCS itself.

You mention a fee of £24.50. This is a set fee for bailiff's attending on a Council Tax Liability Order.

ajjars · 28th April 2007, 10:08

Yes, the Bailiff was certified.

I received a letter from Drakes saying they are looking into the complaint yesterday and one from the courts today so we shall just wait and see what happens .....

Thanks all Ajjars

The Watcher · 28th April 2007, 10:45

Good Luck - keep at 'em !

When you said "Today I got home from work to find a removal notice on the side in my kitchen (don't know how it got there) saying that they had come to remove goods". What exactly did you mean? Was it a letter in an envelope, or just a notice (that anyone could read)?

ajjars · 28th April 2007, 10:53

Hi Watcher,

It was just a notice that anyone could read. I thought everyone was out when the bailiff called and wondered how it got on the kitchen top. Turns out my 17 year old son answered the door to him. (Had visions of the bailiff wandering around my house!). He didn't question my son (as hes a minor) or I could have had him for that as well.

When I rang the bailiff and Drakes I mentioned my sons rights under the Data Protection Act. In view of the fact that they received a letter from me stating he doesn't live here anymore, they should not have posted his business like that. The bailiff says "that is how we post the notices, we don't use envelopes", which I think is scandalous. What if you live in a block of flats with a shared entry door?

Anyway, I also mentioned it in my letters to the Court and to Drakes.

Thanks for your support! Ajjars

The Watcher · 28th April 2007, 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajjars

Hi Watcher,

The bailiff says "that is how we post the notices, we don't use envelopes", which I think is scandalous.

I suggest your bailiff read the Office of Fair Trading guidelines (particularly the section on HARASSMENT, Unfair Practises) which states (2.6 section j) -

acting in a way likely to be embarrassing to the debtor either deliberately or through lack of care, for example, by not putting correspondence in a sealed envelope and putting it through a letterbox.

Parva · 29th April 2007, 03:52

At the risk of shaking a few trees, you mentioned that your son moved out and wants to move back soon? Should he not perhaps be the one to live upto his responsibilities? I have a 21 year old son who's soon to pass his driving test but when he does he'll get a swift kick up the backside and sort his own mess out if a situation like this arose!

The Watcher · 29th April 2007, 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parva

At the risk of shaking a few trees, you mentioned that your son moved out and wants to move back soon? Should he not perhaps be the one to live upto his responsibilities? I have a 21 year old son who's soon to pass his driving test but when he does he'll get a swift kick up the backside and sort his own mess out if a situation like this arose!

But Parva

It's Ajjars that's getting the harrassment, isn't it?

CAG Products - We think that these will help you to make your claim or Reclaim your Right These sales also help us to keep helping YOU and keeps this site free of third party adverts!

Small Claims Kit	Small Claims Court Guide New Edition	CallBurner - Skype CallRecorder Review	Last Will & Testament Kit	Fight a Motoring Ticket

Alternatively you could purchase a CAG email address here, or maybe you'd prefer our address labels here
UPDATE: Consumer Forums ConsumerWiki is now LIVE - click here: ConsumerWiki N.B. Please note - due to postage costs these products are only available in the U.K.