Help Plymouth City Council refuse Offers

[godsgift2000]

Hi there hope someone can help,
Plymouth Council contacted us for payment of council tax of £1033 from last year, when my wife phoned them back and offered to pay in installments of £100 per month they refused and said unless payment was recieved in full "another company" would be taking up the debt. Now a month later we have recieved a letter through the door from Smiths Bailiffs to say they have come to take walking possesion of my goods and demanding full payment + charges within 7 days.
Do I have to pay these Baliffs or can I pay the council direct in installments as I really dont want to get into an agreement with the baliffs
thanks Steve

[ChloeJane]

Hi Godsgift,

Yes you can choose to pay the council but it will not stop the bailiffs coming or charges.

Write a letter to the council and include £100.

There is a template letter on the site found here.

Send it and await a reply. In the meantime it is a good idea to write to the Bailiffs and state that you are dealing with the council and awaiting a reply.

Good luck.

[godsgift2000]

Thanks for the reply
If I send a letter and £100 to the council will they just take that off this years tax as they have already refused to take any instalments and said I must deal with the baliff company as it now out of their hands.
My wife is worried that they may try to force entry or take our car which she needs for work am I better negotiating with the baliffs or try sticking it out with the council
regards Steve

[Billyhunt]

Hi Godsgift2000,

If you read through some previous posts, you will see that the bailiffs cannot force entry for recovery of council tax, so don't worry.

Are you able to pay this years council tax as well as the arrears?

Why are the council asking for last years council tax, how did the arrears occur? This might have a bearing on their current stance.

Have you made payment agreements with them in the past and if so were they successful or did you have problems paying? Again this may have a bearing on their attitude?

Have you had any correspondence from the court, were you given the opportunity to supply details of your income/expenditure?

Are you, or any member of your household on any benefits? Do you have anyone living with you who could be classed as vulnerable. For example, disabled?

[godsgift2000]

Hi,
I am able to pay the current years c tax as well as the arrears if they will accept my offer. As to how the arrears came about I assumed my wife was paying by direct debit but only found out when the baliff came she was suffering from severe depression and had been hiding debts and letters from me. I have not seen any letters from a court or been able to supply details of my income and no one is on benefits or vulnerable except maybe my kids as I said I am just about able to pay £100 per month along with current council tax but cant afford to pay any more without putting my mortgage in jeopardy.
I can probably manage to pay half to council in one sum and hope they will accept the rest in installments do you think this will get the baliffs off our backs my wife is terrified we will lose all our goods.

[Herbie]

Yet another example of local authorities wiping their hands of a problem, merely by obtaining a Liability Order and passing it to the Bailiffs.

The facts are these:

Staff will try to tell you that once a Liability Order has been made it cannot be revoked.........probably true....but just because it cannot be revoked , does not mean that IT MUST BE ENFORCED.

They cannot disown their responsibility.

The Local Authority has a legal responsibility and they can indeed be liable for "acts and omissions" of their contrators (Bailiff company).


TIME TO PAY

The Local Authorities own Professional Association issued a Model Code of Practice just a few months ago and under their section on BAILIFF GUIDELINES there is a seperate section entitled: Time Limits for Payments where it states the following:

"Where possible agreements for deferred payment should seek to avoid adding to arreas carried forward at the end of the financial year, but where this is NOT feasible, that a maximum of 12 MONTHS FOR AN ARRANGEMENT IS RECOMMENDED.

There is the possibility that Plymouth Council may allocate your payment against the current year. You should speak to them in the morning.

If this looks to be the case, I would suggest that you write a letter to the bailiff company informing them that you are aware of your rights and that you WILL NOT allow anyone into your home to levy on your goods. Advise them also that you are aware that the fees so far are for just ONE VISIT and that the fee for this is £24.50. He cannot charge any more than this at this moment in time.

Offer £100 per month. I would not advise that you sign a Walking Possession. This is because: if you default, sometimes by just a day or so, the bailiff will return to your home with a van and tell you that he can force entry to remove your goods....which he is allowed to do if you have previously signed a WP. He will then not only charge you the dreaded "attendance with a vehicle" fee, but he will try to charge a fee for late payment, for making a new arrangement etc etc.etc. From your post, you have made it clear that finances are tight, and this additional cost will not be affordable.

If the bailiffs do accept, do try to keep to the arrangement to avoid any further problems.

[setmefree]

good advice herbie, i think the council are mad coz if this case went back into court and they were aware of the offer made the magistrate can and would probably would write the debt off.

[godsgift2000]

Thanks so much for your help and replies so what you are basically saying then is that I am better off trying to negotiate with the baliffs rather than the council and but not let them in or sign anything and should I keep my car hidden as my wife needs it for her buisiness (she is a mobile nail technician) if they take that we lose half our income.

[setmefree]

you can also question your council and bailiff's as to why they wont accept your offer,your offer is more than reasonable and i'm sure the courts would say the same.contact your citizens advice tomorrow and tell them what you have told us,i'm sure they will guide you in the right direction.
GOOD LUCK

[alanfromderby]

If you cannot pay what the bailiffs or the council are demanding, then the ONLY recourse is for the matter to go back to the court - who will only set a repayment sum that you can afford.

Do not, under any circumstances, let the bailiffs into your house. Tell them firmly that you do not have to let them in, and you have no intention of signing anything. Eventually they will have no choice but to refer the case back to the council.

In the meantime, if you start making payments to the council they have no choice but to accept them - and they will be taken into account if/when it is put back to the court. Although, in all likelihood, they will just accept the amount you are paying.

[Billyhunt]

Hi Godsgift2000,

Firstly, I am sorry to hear about your wifes depression, I can appreciate how difficult it must have been for her. To put both of your minds at rest, a bailiff cannot force entry to your home to recover council tax. Do not let them tell you otherwise. However they can gain peaceful entry through an unlocked door or window so make sure your home is secure at all times until this situation is resolved. If the bailiff calls, go outside to them, lock the door and do not let them in under any circumstances. Once they have gained entry for the first time they can then gain entry by force if you actively try to stop them in the future. Do not be intimidated by the bailiff, they know the significance of gaining that first entry and try all manner of ways to get it.

They can levy on your wife’s car so you may want to consider moving it until this situation is resolved. However they cannot if it is on HP or conditional finance. If it can be proved that a vehicle is a tool of work or an integral part of a job then it cannot be levied on (simply needing a car to get to work and back is not enough, though needing a vehicle for deliveries should be). Does your wife have finance on her car? Does she need it to do her job?

You have the option of trying to negotiating with the bailiff or the local authority as you are aware. With the bailiff, they often use a walking possession agreement as part of the deal. In simple terms, this means that they enter your home, list your possessions and then use them as security. If you default they hit you with lots of charges and seize your goods. Bailiffs are fond of using this option even if you miss a payment by a day or so, so be very careful when considering dealing with the bailiff. It is imperative that you can meet the payments agreed and do not deviate from the agreement at all. If at all possible do not let them in and try to organise payment without signing anything.

If you deal with the local authority, I would suggest speaking to the citizens advice bureau as they can help you organise an income/outgoings statement and this can be sent along with a covering letter explaining the circumstances regarding your wife’s condition and the reason why the arrears came about (you can of course do this yourself). Normally, a local authority like the arrears to be cleared within the current council tax year so starting in April 07 your payment offer should be acceptable, without giving a lump sum up front. The most important point to remember is not to over stretch and feel forced into offering what you cannot afford. You could include a cheque in with the letter as advised previously or pay direct via the local authority website. In the letter, list a breakdown of the payments you are offering and the dates you will pay and make sure they are aware that the payments are for the arrears. Could you set up a standing order/direct debit for the this years council tax payments to avoid any confusion on their part?

Finally, if the local authority do accept payment, you will still have to pay the bailiffs initial charges. Read through this site before paying any fees as there are set fees they can charge though many try their luck by asking for more.

Hope this helps.

[Conniff]

gg do you have a debit card? if so go here Plymouth City Council - Online Payments

and make your payment online. This wont refuse payment so you have forced them to accept your payments.

You should, of course, carry on with the advice already given.