refusing to pay bailiff fee

[echo394]

Hi all im new here and hoping that someone can advise me.

had a visit yesterday from a bailiff (rossendales) to collect council tax arrears. He said i owed £156. i queried it with him and said it was only £114 and would check with the council what i owed (council sent this years bill last week with an outstanding amount of £114 at bottom i presume this is what he had come to collect) but he said i'd have to pay and then take it up with council, at which point i told him to 'go away' and shut door on him. I rang council and was told that it was only £114 they had asked him to collect and they had sent me a letter on 22 march informing me the debt had been passed to bailiffs and giving me 14 days to pay before they came round. So i paid the council the £114 by card over the phone and was told as far as they concerned my debt is cleared.

I rang rossendales to tell them i'd paid council so dont come round again and ask where did they get the amount i owed from cos it certainly not what the council say. they told me it must include charges,(the letter pushed thru door said it was plus costs)and the bailiff had made a mistake filling out letter. so i asked what their charges are. rossendales say they dont know, its upto the bailiff who comes out. And even tho i have paid council as far as they are concerned i still owe £156 and will be round to collect.

spoke to the bailiff who says that he charges £42.50 and i owe council £156. i told him that he can only charge £22.50 and that he came round b4 the 14 days was up but he told me charges went up on 1st april he was told to charge that much by council and he'll be round to collect.

rang council today and they have told me they spoke to rossendales after i had made payment yesterday and told them the debt was cleared. rossendales asked them to inform me that because i had paid council direct i was still liable for the bailiffs charge and that they would continue to call round to collect them. council have told me they not getting involved as they have got the money they wanted end of case and its between me and bailiff now.


How do i stand. can i refuse to pay the bailiff his fee? can he still call round to collect his fee? if ,by some miracle, he gains peaceful entry to my home can he take goods to cover his charge? or am i worrying over nothing.

[demon_x_slash]

He's made one visit, and so AFAIK is entitled to charge one fee, the first visit fee, of, as you quite rightly said, £22.50.

[Herbie]

For the collection of Council Tax, bailiffs fees were increased on April 1st this year.

The new charges are:

For a 1st visit: £24.50

For a 2nd visit: £18.00

In this particular case it would appear that the bailiff is attempting to charge both the first and second visit fee which comes to £42.50

It is clear that he has visited you once. I would send a letter with a cheque for £24.50 (there is no VAT to pay on Council Tax collection) . Inform the bailiff that he visited you just once and that the payment is in full and final settlement. Keep a copy of the letter.

[demon_x_slash]

Thanks for the correction, Herbie

[tiglet]

Just putting in my 2p here, but the council are incorrect in telling you taht as they've been paid, it's nothing to do with them. They actually still ahve responsibility for the bailiffs they retain and so they do ahve to investigate any complaint you make. If they don't (and you still require them to) advise you will be referring them to the local government ombudsman.

[setmefree]

Forgive me if i'm wrong, but i'm sure that if the Council accept the debt back then the bailiff's loose out on the fees

[PizzaMaker]

If the bailiff company have collected on this account, they take their fees out first. With council tax, fees are taken out first then council is paid.

[setmefree]

Originally Posted by PizzaMaker

If the bailiff company have collected on this account, they take their fees out first. With council tax, fees are taken out first then council is paid.

Yes i agree PizzaMaker but as is written in the original thread,nothing was paid to the bailiff's it was made direct to the council, so how can they claim fee's on a debt that they haven't collected

[The Watcher]

Originally Posted by setmefree

Forgive me if i'm wrong, but i'm sure that if the Council accept the debt back then the bailiff's loose out on the fees

GOOD !

[demon_x_slash]

Unfortunately, the bailiff made a visit to collect before the amount was paid off to the council. He is still therefore entitled to his first visit fee, £24.50. The bailiff is an agent of the council and that makes the council ultimately responsible for the bailiff's actions. Don't allow them to fob you off.

[setmefree]

Originally Posted by setmefree
I'm sure that if the council take the debt back then the bailiff's loose out
I've just come back from the CAB today and that's what they told me, in fact the guy chuckled as he said it.

So, the council said they will take back what I owe, as long as I stick to an agreement and Bristow and Sutor loose out on the £200 charges they've added for knocking on my door. (And they didn't even do that, one time I was in when they just put a note through my door and left)

[ChloeJane]

Hi,

Just reading your post.

Are you sure they said the Bailiff is not entitled to fees?

In every situation the council will state clearly, that while they will take the debt back, fees are still owed to the bailiff company and bailiff.

I would check this again as too often the council does take back the debt, but the bailiff is entitled to charge for visits done as per previous posts, so they can pursue you for this legally.

Make sure you have it in writing or you will find you pay off the council, but the debt from the bailiff will be pursued and the charges will accrue for further visits.

[Herbie]

If you look at my earlier post, I did say that the bailiff had visited once and was therefore entitled to a first visit fee of £24.50. For the LA to think different is madness.

I would pay this amount by cheque, to the bailiff company as suggested earlier, in full and final settlement. Keep a copy of the letter as proof.

[Belaflat]

A few years back, I had arrears of council tax and was ordered to pay via the courts.
One morning, I was sat in the house when I heard the letter box clack and assumed it was the postman so didnt go rushing through.
10 minutes later, picked up the post to see a note from the bailiffs saying they had called to try to collect but no-one was in so they would call again but you have been charged x pounds etc.
I was fuming because no-one had knocked at the door yet this letter said they had.
I went down to my brothers house a couple of streets away and took the letter to show him and while we were looking, would you believe it, the same happened to him.
No knock, just a letter.
We both looked out in the street and saw 1 man calling at different addresses and decided to confront him.
Asked him if he had delivered the letters and he said yes.
Asked why he hadnt knocked and why did the letter say he had.
He looked a bit sheepish and told us he was told to deliver abunch of letters and that was it.

Straight on to Bailiff company to complain...no joy.
Straight on to Council who initially insisted that it was out of thier hands.
I pointed out they had employed a company which had effectively committed mass fraud and by refusing to do anything about it, they were parties to it too.
A short exchange of "its too late now" followed by " accept the money, less charges or else I will report this" ended up with the Council taking back the debt and accepting payment there and then over the phone via debit card.

Slightly different to your situation but my first challenge to authority that i won.

It can be done, just dont back down easily.

[setmefree]

Well that's an angry villager,myself and Belaflat who have all challenged the council and have had ALL bailiff's charges dropped, and the debt placed back with the council,and once again forgive me if i'm wrong but the council has to apply to the magistrates court to gain a liability order for the collection of the debt then the bailiff steps in,but if the council accepts payment whilst in the hands of the bailiff then this means they have taken the debt from the bailiff's,so surely any charges made by the bailiff would become a civil debt and as the same as the rest of us they would have to apply to the county court to try to recover the debt.

[The Watcher]

Originally Posted by Belaflat

A few years back, I had arrears of council tax and was ordered to pay via the courts.
One morning, I was sat in the house when I heard the letter box clack and assumed it was the postman so didnt go rushing through.
10 minutes later, picked up the post to see a note from the bailiffs saying they had called to try to collect but no-one was in so they would call again but you have been charged x pounds etc.
I was fuming because no-one had knocked at the door yet this letter said they had.
I went down to my brothers house a couple of streets away and took the letter to show him and while we were looking, would you believe it, the same happened to him.
No knock, just a letter.
We both looked out in the street and saw 1 man calling at different addresses and decided to confront him.
Asked him if he had delivered the letters and he said yes.
Asked why he hadnt knocked and why did the letter say he had.
He looked a bit sheepish and told us he was told to deliver abunch of letters and that was it.

Straight on to Bailiff company to complain...no joy.
Straight on to Council who initially insisted that it was out of thier hands.
I pointed out they had employed a company which had effectively committed mass fraud and by refusing to do anything about it, they were parties to it too.
A short exchange of "its too late now" followed by " accept the money, less charges or else I will report this" ended up with the Council taking back the debt and accepting payment there and then over the phone via debit card.

Slightly different to your situation but my first challenge to authority that i won.

It can be done, just dont back down easily.

Well done. I'm sure the bailiffs will TRY and charge (whether they have done anything or not) but it's up to us to be assertive and, when fraud has been committed, simply refuse to pay.

(I'm sure they would NOT want a Judge to be looking at cases like this too often !)

[djweeble]