Bailiff levy chages

[Saffronflowers]

Hi

I have just paid off council tax arrears - total £772 - paid off £250 7 March - paid off remaining £696.30 today so in total have paid £946. The upshot is that I have been charged £195 in bailiff charges. They have told the council they have done a levy, I have recieved no notification of this, nor do the council have a record of this.

My question is - surely they can only levy on the percentage method on the original debt not on their charges.

Secondly how do I go about claiming some of them back as I estimate them to be about £90 if they did infact do a levy.

Any advice thank you

SFx

[Herbie]

If you paid in instalments, did the bailiff previously visit.

How many times did he go to the house, and did he either come into the house or did you sign any documents.

Who are the firm of bailiffs....no individual bailiff bailiff name, just the company.

[Saffronflowers]

They state, though did not leave any evidence that they vistited twice - so that amounts to £38, they say they have visited to levy goods, though left no notice of form. Now the original debt was £772, so therefore from what I understand they can charge £22 for the first hundred 4% for the next 400 and the 2.5 for the last £300, so I work out as a rough estimate that comes to about £50 max

the baliffs are Newlyn

Sfx

[Herbie]

The percentage figures ONLY apply if they have levied.

In this particular case, they have VISITED twice.

The first visit fee is £22.50

Second visir fee is £16.50

There has been no levy.

Write to them enclosing a cheque for £39 stating that you consider their charges suspicious. Advice them that they DID NOT come into your home, no Walking Possession was signed, therefore no levy has been made.

Tell them that the payment is in Full and Final settlement of their claim. And that failure by them to accept this will result in you applying for a complete and detailed breakdown of their fees using a Subject Access Request. Copy the letter to the local authority.

PS, bailiffs cannot charge VAT on their fees when collecting Council Tax arrears.

[Saffronflowers]

Herbie - thanks so much for your help, I have paid the full amount £967 for a £772 debt. Spoke to the council who can get into newlyns records, and on it they say that they have done a levy, which probably means the cars outside our house, one of which belongs to me, the others to someone else. There is no info of what they have levied on the system, the council have been asked to be copied in.

This I am happy to do as they have been really helpful in sorting this out, at the end day it was my $uck up in the first place, but they have dealt with bailiffs when they ahve got shirty.

SFx

[Saffronflowers]

I sent off a letter requesting a full breakdown of my charges, and gave them seven days to reply, - guess what no reply, now do I send a letter before action saying that I will take them to the small claims court for the full amount?

thanks
SFx

[Herbie]

If you are requesting a breakdown of all the fees and charges under the Data Protection Act....the bailiff company have 40 days in which to respond.

I do not know if you sent a fee of £10 or not. If you did, you should check to see if this has cleared thorugh your bank or not.

[tiglet]

You don't actually need to S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) the bailiffs company - they are obliged to provide you with a breakdown of their fees.

However, I would give them longer than 7 days - perhaps a chase up call to see whetheer they have received your letter/posted one back to you?

[Saffronflowers]

Right this saga is coming to an end.

Acheived so far.

Confirmation that all my charges will be refunded by the council and they will get it off the bailiffs.

The bailiff will send me an apology letter.

Interest from the media.

Meetng with the Head of Revenue on Tuesday.

Confirmation from the OFT that percetage charges on debit card transaction are unfair.

What can I acheive out of this meeting

Refund for all people who have been charged for debit card transactions.

A better systme for complaining about bailiffs to the council

I need facts and figures, so come on peeps give me your best, this really could be ground breaking change for everyone.

SFx

[FunnyMan]

Saffron,

Well done, you are ahead of me obviously.

In the meeting with the Head of Revenue you could suggest the following:

1. That the Council places adverts in local papers advising people who have had bailiffs call on them check that they have been charged the correct statutory fees by contacting the Council.
2. That the Council will require the bailiff company to pay compensation as well as return illegal fees charged plus interest.
3. That where charges for a van that has legitimately attended that the cost of the van is correct (I suspect that a van may be used more than once in any given day therefore the charge for the van should be divided between all those visited by the van).
4. That the Council informs the bailiff companies representing them that if they act unlawfully then the Council will support criminal and civil proceedings against the bailiff company and the bailiffs concerned. (I would suggest that any less would leave the Council and Council Officers liable to prosecution as well as the bailiffs and bailiff companies.)
5. As you say above a refund for all those debit card transactions illegally applied by bailiffs and bailiff companies.
6. That Revenue staff are actually trained about the law with regard to bailiffs.
7. That those in vulnerable groups and those on benefits do not have court orders issued against them when Council Tax debt can be retreived weekly from benefits.
8. That the Council writes to the Chief Constable stating that the Council will support criminal proceedings against bailiffs who have committed fraud under the Fraud Act 2006 (take a copy of the Act along with you and also Herbie's superb reporting of the questions asked by Lord Lucas and the answers from the Home Office Minister - it might actually be an idea to email details of this to the Head of Revenues first.)
9. The Council to report to the Courts abuses of position/overcharging by bailiffs.
10. The Council to publish figures concerning complaints received by them about bailiffs and the results of investigations carried out by the Council.
11. The Council stops asking the bailiff companies to police and investigate themselves (a perverse idea if ever there was one).

These are just a few ideas, as I say you are ahead of me.

Hope this helps, it is the general line I have been heading in.

[ScarletPimpernel]

What about:

12. The Council undertakes to terminate any contractual relationship between itself and any firm whose bailiffs act illegally or unlawfully.
13. The Council undertakes to make explicit in any future contract with bailiffs that it expects the firm and its staff to act within the law at all times, and that it will take steps to implement a method of monitoring the contract to ensure that this happens.

Remember, local authorities are under a duty to spend public money wisely. It seems to me that by allowing failing to ensure that the bailiffs they contract with are acting lawfully, they are exposing themselves to the possibility of litigation which could cost the public purse dear. They have a responsibility to monitor what is done in their name.

[Saffronflowers]

Fantastic work - The monitoring is something I have thought long and hard about, - I think that they should employ a Bailiff Liason Officer paid for by the bailiff and the council - therefore neutral to both parties.

SFx

[demon_x_slash]

Do councils ask for statements of account for each individual debtor from the bailiffs, when the debt is cleared? You know, stating amounts and actions taken: Original debt, first visit charged, second visit charged, WPA signed, van fee, total charged? Perhaps they should...perhaps if bailiffs had to give receipts, log it down in an account book, have that account book audited by the Council regularly and allow debtors access (under Data Protection Act or somesuch) in order to check the bailiff's version of events match with their receipts?

[Saffronflowers]

Demon - from what I am aware most councils can access the bailiff's database, so all notes etc are accesible to them. One thing they are now insisting on are trackers in the vans and cars so that they have a way of prooving that they went to the destinations they say. A small step.

SFx

[ScarletPimpernel]

Even if councils do have access to the bailiff's database, it seems to me that they are screwed either way. They ought to have some sort of system in place to monitor any contract, whatever it's for, under 'best value' policies; if they aren't monitoring, how do they know that contractor is delivering what has been agreed and paid for with public funds? How did the council satisfy itself that the firm of bailiffs they employed were entirely above-board? If they didn't check them out, aren't monitoring the contract, or have done so but have allowed a contractor to act unlawfully (since it's not unreasonable for the council to be expected to know the rules), they could be accused of maladministration.

Maladministration can be seen as someone suffering an injustice as a result of a council doing something the wrong way, doing something it should not have done, or failing to do something it should have done. It will be clear how this fits in with my comments above.

The Local Government Ombudsman investigates complaints of maladministration.

I'd suggest that at your meeting, you suggest that if a satisfactory conclusion isn't reached, you'll consider a maladministration complaint to the LGO.

[Saffronflowers]

had my meeting with the council yesterday and it was really fascinating.

He has asked me to come to a meeting with them "to put them on the spot"!!! (scarey) - but it will be really interesting.

Though we are at opposite ends of the scale when it comes to the use of bailiffs and their conduct we both agreed there needs to be a system of checks and balances put into place which he has asked me to put up a proposal.

As far as the percentage surcharge goes, he said that he will ask them to bring evidence to the meeting and if they try and justify and illegal charge then he will call their contract into question!!!!!

So all in all it was very constructive and in the next two weeks we really should acheive something and you will be able to read about it in the super soraway Sun!!!

SFx

[JUMBOPOWERED]

Why do i get the feeling saffronflowers is a journalist as everyone else is doing the same and getting nowhere and yet here she is and is getting noticed. Either a journo orhas authority of some sort.