Bailiffs, doors and potential new laws

[anchors_with_a_w]

Bit of a tangent, and a cross thread to council tax.
I was told by the council that my rented mop cupboard conversion was liable for council tax and would not be treated as part of the house.....because it had a front door.

When is a door not legally a door?

Perhaps the answer is to this is when a citizen can no longer be safe from forced entry. When you can no longer shut it against all but warranted officers. I would love to know.

If they change the law and allow forced entry, do they change the legal concept of a front door.
Might this mean that anyone renting in a 'developed' large house can now say they have no front door, and hence pay only one council tax for the house?

Um...that might slow them down a bit....

[The Terminator]

Originally Posted by anchors_with_a_w

Bit of a tangent, and a cross thread to council tax.
I was told by the council that my rented mop cupboard conversion was liable for council tax and would not be treated as part of the house.....because it had a front door.

When is a door not legally a door?

Perhaps the answer is to this is when a citizen can no longer be safe from forced entry. When you can no longer shut it against all but warranted officers. I would love to know.

If they change the law and allow forced entry, do they change the legal concept of a front door.
Might this mean that anyone renting in a 'developed' large house can now say they have no front door, and hence pay only one council tax for the house?

Um...that might slow them down a bit....

I've been waiting for this question to come up and it is a very good point.My example I live in a block of flat's so which door do they kick down.They can't kick down the communal door because that would be criminal damage and if they did they would be tresspassing for being in the communal area.Comments.

[The Watcher]

Originally Posted by The Terminator

I've been waiting for this question to come up and it is a very good point.My example I live in a block of flat's so which door do they kick down.They can't kick down the communal door because that would be criminal damage and if they did they would be tresspassing for being in the communal area.Comments.

I would assume that your "front door" is the final entry point into your personal (and normally private) space.

[mrswonder]

I think it's the door to the property for which only you & those living with you have a key to, & for which only you & those living with you can grant access. When I lived in a flat in a converted house, we had a main front door leading to the lobby, then a lobby door that led to the individual flat doors. We had our own doorbells but no intercom, so it was occasionally the case that your doorbell would be rung by mistake. You'd go down to answer the front door, but leave the middle lobby door open behind you to save having to use the key to open it again. You wouldn't know until you opened the front door that it wasn't actually for you.

When bailiffs started coming to a neighbour, she wouldn't go downstairs to them, believing they couldn't get in to her door because of the other two doors. However, they just rang someone else's doorbell, who opened the front door leaving the middle door open behind them. They flashed a card of some kind for a split second & were able to walk through the middle door before the resident even realised what was happening, & broke down the neighbour's door having previously had peaceful entry (either through her or her boyfriend). Having moved, I have sole access to my front door now but one of the first things I did was put in a £26 intercom. The door never gets opened now unless I know who it is first - having to speak to me through it cheeses some people off no end, but tough luck. If I didn't invite you, you don't need to stay there & put yourself through it.

[The Watcher]

Originally Posted by mrswonder

one of the first things I did was put in a £26 intercom. The door never gets opened now unless I know who it is first

Can you recommend a good one?

[mrswonder]

Absolutely. The one I got is called a "talking doorbell". Quite a few companies sell it online, but you can see the details here - it's also sold by Help the Aged . It's basically a handset & a speaker box connected by a phoneline - the speaker box goes on your outside wall, & the handset can be positioned anywhere in the house as far as the phoneline will reach to. The handset sits on a stand/rest, which has a light on it - the light goes on when you lift the handset up & also allows you to see if you leave the handset off the hook by mistake. The whole thing runs off 4 AA batteries - don't be tempted to buy them at the same time as you order, as some AA batteries (eg Duracells) don't fit properly. The cheap Panasonics you can get for £1 for a pack of 4 do the job fine - mine have been in a year & haven't run out yet. I can't remember if it came with cable clips to pin the phone line down, but you can get those at any DIY shop for about £2.

It's an absolute doddle to install - you just need a drill, a hammer & a screwdriver. I had it all done within the hour.

[The Watcher]

Originally Posted by Thermometer

You can buy the same talking doorbell here for just £9!

The Garden Factory - Two Way Talking Doorbell

Thank you both - it will be very useful (esp as my side door is "inset" into an alcove and even with a chain on you cannot see who is there - because the door doesn;t open far enough to clear the alcove.)

[mrswonder]

Originally Posted by Thermometer

You can buy the same talking doorbell here for just £9!

The Garden Factory - Two Way Talking Doorbell

I'm not sure this is the same item. The box you speak into looks the same, but there's no picture on that link of the handset, which makes me think that any handset/other unit might be different from the one I got. I suggest ringing them first before you order it through them - you can point them to the link I gave & ask them if it's the same thing. If it is, it's dropped a lot in price since I bought one - might get one for my parents.

[mrswonder]

Originally Posted by The Watcher

Thank you both - it will be very useful (esp as my side door is "inset" into an alcove and even with a chain on you cannot see who is there - because the door doesn;t open far enough to clear the alcove.)

On winter days/nights, you'll appreciate the extra security. On days when you haven't bothered to get dressed, you'll love it even more.