Bailiffs threatening to come to home without further notice

[Ali2]

Hi

I do hope someone can assist with my query as I find forum members very supportive and helpful on the banking side of the site.

I have a problem with bailiffs. I have been involved in a dispute with my council since 2005 re council tax and they will not listen to my side of my argument. In 2005, the property were I live, was infested with mice and, as my housing association would not help, I rang the Environmental Dept of my local council. I told them the matter was urgent and they sent out guys to put down poison etc. This was not successful and I was onto the Environment Office of the council on a near weekly basis as my bedsit was technically unhabitable. There were mouse droppings on the bed, carpet, caught one in a trap - I think you get the picture.

I was so scared that I ended up sleeping in my car for a couple of nights, sleeping in the communal area of my flats then spent 5 months commuting to a friend to sleep on a camp bed because I could not sleep at night. I apologise if these measures seem silly and trivial but when you do not have a bedroom and hear noise from mice it is not very nice. I was told that the Council would get an court order to get the HA to do something. Nothing ever happened. The council tax people are not interested as I did not vacate my premises despite the fact the environment section knew the problems. I have not paid council tax for that year or last because I want to acknowledged that I could not live at my property due to health and hygiene reasons. I am not refusing to pay any money but want a fair hearing and the fact that I could not live in my flat taken into account.

Bailiffs are now chasing me. I told them that I was in dispute with the council and they told me to go back to them. There is no point in talking to minions at the council as they follow rule books and now the bailiffs are threatening to turn up with a van and also take car etc. Also the bill seems double the original council tax bill. Please can someone advise on this. I have been told there is an Ombudsman (I believe) I can contact about this, however, also the bailiffs have provided no breakdown of costs. Can I go back to them to request a breakdown (Subject Access Request) or does anyone have a template letter I can follow. I am not prepared to be bullied by them or the council.

I could understand bailiffs chasing a debt for just reasons of not paying, however, I went to the council (environment section) who knew that while the problem was happening that I could not live at home and they did nothing to help despite their promises. I made a valid complaint and ended up having to take desperate measures such as living away from home because of the stress and health implications. I really feel like taking the council to court or also seeking publicity. Any advice appreciated. I'm sure they would find a way to jail me rather than lock up a violent offender if they could. Apologies for the length of post but I really need advice. Thanks.

[Tristesse]

Firstly I wouldn't want to stay there either and what you did is far from silly or trivial, the council actually have a duty to provide housing that is free from what you have mentioned and so they are at fault.
Do not be bullied by the bailiffs and do not let them into your house! If they do not gain access they will return the warrant to the Council (this just happened to myself).
I understand your point and reasons for not paying it but until the council do it is probably best that you start paying a little a month (they will refund what you have paid should they finally see sense). Contact the council and say that you are continuing to dispute the amount owed however you realise that until a verdict is reached you will pay xxx a month but should the dispute be resolved in favour of you they will be liable to pay it back and compensation for the stress levied on you. Make this realistic if it's only £1 then only offer this.
The bailiff told me I would be going to jail if I didn't let him in etc, this is rubbish and when I informed the council of this they weren't to happy and took the name and mobile number of the bailiff in question and said they would ring me when they had taken action against the bailiff. If you recieve threats like this do the same.
I would also consider taking the council to court and going public with it. Wait until the bailiffs are off your back and then seek advice through a lawyer or the such (many offer free consultation and if you don't earn much legal aid is availiable there is also a 24 hour phone number for those of legal aid but I can't find it atm but will try to for later).

[ladybird17]

First of all, I would agree with the comments about the bailiffs, do NOT let them bully you - in fact you don't even have to answer the door if you don't want to.
Secondly - I'm no expert so wait until someone much knowledgeable than me confirms or denies this - I'm not convinced that council tax is related in any way to the condition the property is in. It's the ground space it takes up etc. So for example, in a street of identical 3 bed houses, all will pay the same - regardless of the interior condition. So whilst the council should be assisting you in housing, I'm not sure that your living conditions have any bearig on your council tax.
And just to repeat -don't let ANY bailiff intimidate you (and some of them are good at it)

[Tristesse]

Uninhabitable properties are exempt from Council Tax (as far as I'm aware) and surely the property could be classed as such? I'm no expert either I'm afraid and probably the best people to see are Shelter or CAB on this. I have seen them about housing before and they were able to give me a list of things which makes a house uninhabitable ours was extreme dampness and they moved us two days after I saw the CAB.

[oz4725]

Hi Ali2

I think if you contact these, then they will have all the answers you need

The Bailiff Watchdog -

Oz

[i_spam]

The way i can see at the moment is this. The bailiff watchdog are not asking for any fees just donations. I think that if you use someones expertise then you should pay no question of them asking for a donation. i have offerred people this as well but what most do is take the advice and then dissapear for good.

[MizzPiggy]

Hi Ali2,

I would be more than happy to help if you call our office in the morning. The number is on the site or the contact page.

Regards,

Alison

[The Terminator]

Originally Posted by Tristesse

Uninhabitable properties are exempt from Council Tax (as far as I'm aware) and surely the property could be classed as such? I'm no expert either I'm afraid and probably the best people to see are Shelter or CAB on this. I have seen them about housing before and they were able to give me a list of things which makes a house uninhabitable ours was extreme dampness and they moved us two days after I saw the CAB.

That is correct and as I work for a L.A I can advise you.Uninhabitable properties/ propertys in disrepair are exempt from Council Tax and this is in the Council Tax Regulations(SI 1992).I'm a little bemused why EH didn't do anything as a property running alive with mice is predicuial to Health as defind under S79 of the EPA(1990).If the OP can PM me then I can offer more detailed advice

Regards

The Terminator

[gwc1000]

But surely, no matter how many mice you are unfortunate to have living in your home cannot make the property exempt from Council Tax? I am lucky enough to own my own home and catch mice regularly (twelve in one week) due to us backing onto fields. Can I claim exemption? I feel it is the responsibility of the occupier to keep the property clean and vermin free.

[Ali2]

Dear All

Thank you so much for all the posts received offering advice re my problem.

Just to say, re the responsibility of the owner to keep the property clean, when you live in flats (nearly 20 in a block) it was imperative that the problem was (in my opinion) solved as a block issue (which the Environmental Department actually agreed with!). I could not solve this problem by myself and the inspectors physically saw the droppings etc for themselves in my flat, and the Environment Department knew that I certainly could not live at home because I had/have no bedroom so I was living amongst vermin and this was a serious health issue. In my humble opinion, they had a duty to deal with this and they literally promised the earth, but washed their hands of it! I even had the manager of the ED promising something would be done, he even rang me, and he agreed it was a health risk, but nothing came to fruition!

Back to the bailiffs - I have now had another letter entitled Removal of Goods Notice - informing me that as I have not contacted them they will be applying to the Council to proceed with removal of possessions. They say goods may be removed in my absence. They give me a number to call to make payment to avoid action. I am thinking (please correct me) of writing to them to tell them that action is being taken at a higher level within the council and also their fees no way relate to the debt in question, what they are demanding is nearly double what the Council want! I also feel like telling them that I will be reporting them to OFT or Trading Standards?!! Am I heading along the right lines?

Once again, thanks to all of you for taking the trouble to post your advice so far, especially re Council Tax Exemption. I do feel strongly about this issue as the Council knew the problems, however, chose to ignore it. Alison, it took a while for the penny to drop re your phone number, however, I will try to give you a call asap to discuss whatever needs to be done. It is reassuring to know, from all of you who have posted so far, that problems shared can lead to answers rather than tackling bureaucracy on your own. Thanks and best wishes.

[Tristesse]

You really need to get this back with the council and by the sounds of it you will have a good case to do so. Unfortunately the ways the system works you will have to pay (can be a very little amount a month) until the dispute is resolved and then you will get a refund.

Phone the council's recovery department explain the situation and if needs be site the regulation given in Terminators reply.
Explain to them that this issue has already caused you alot of stress and having to deal with bailiffs will only add to that.

If you can make payment via the council's website / telephone payment system of the amount you can be each month (this can be used as a first installment).

Explain to the council that you have done this as an act of your commitment to repaying even though you dispute the amount.

Not all council will accept this payment. I was lucky mine did and it helped when it came to arranging a plan with them.

If the council refuse to speak to you as the debt is with the bailiff company then you will have to wait I'm afraid. This is not as bad as it sounds the bailiff will try to call but just ignore him (they won't try for long) and if you do speak to them tell them you are not going to let them gain peaceful access to your property and as such it is within there interest to return the warrant to the council.

Number one rule as has been stated many times is do not let them in the warrant will be returned.

The Bailiff watchdog are very good and will help you with the fees which unfortunately i'm not to learned about. You are entitled to a break down of costs and I'm certain a copy of the account showing costs applied etc.

[Ali2]

Thanks to Alison who has been in touch and I will be following up.

Just an update. I have today had a notice from the bailiffs - which looks to be a standard letter - entitled 'Notice of Committal to Prison'. It says that the amount remains outstanding and I have failed to make and maintain an acceptable arrangement etc etc. It finishes by saying that if debt not cleared immediately, "we must advise you that the subsequent action may involve application for your commital to prison, or if the Council consider appropriate an Attachment of Earnings or Benefit Order to be made".

Has anyone else ever received one of these and what action did you take?

Thanks.

[ladybird17]

Oh for heavens sake,Ali, this is awful! I can't believe they are employing such appalling tactics. I do have some housing background, but this is the pits. I would suggest, and this is the best I can do, that you get yourself to your nearest Citizens Advice a.s.a.p and also get into the Debt Collectors forum & see if there's anyone there who can give you some constructive advice. I'm sorry I can't help further - all the experience I have is based on negotiation and long drawn out discussions, but I think you are needing something more immediate. I really would suggest CAB, they are usually good on these kind of cases. Please keep us updated if you can.

[Ali2]

Thanks for your support, Ladybird 17. Yes, the council don't want to take any responsibility for a problem that was reported to them and they knew I was living in an unhabitable property. I do intend getting in touch with the bailiff watchdog who have offered to help and the input is also much appreciated.

All I can say is, will keep you posted, unless of course you end up making prison visits to me. After all, I'm far more dangerous than a violent criminal or mugger currently out on the streets. No room for them in our bulging prisons!

[ladybird17]

Well the one thing I can say, is that their dreadful intimidation procedures are beyond contmpt - no way is someone going to knock on your door & march you off to prison!! and that's for sure. Whereabouts are you Ali? - geographically I mean

[Ali2]

Hi

Note to Alison, I have registered as discussed last week. Just one problem, seem to be having difficulties paying online via card so was going to send a cheque. Going to fax the authority form off to you in the meantime. Hope I am going about this the right way, please can you advise if I'm not! Many thanks.

Just to add, thanks to everyone who has provided much needed support on this particular thread.

[stan5131]

Baliff petition;Stop them getting a legal right to forced entry;Peter Bard ( 1 2)

Everyone needs to subscribe to this thread. Peter Baird is trying to get as many signatures as posible to stop this new bill being passed. If passed, bailiffs will have the right to forced entry even in your absence. This needs urgent attention. If we do not get enough signatures, this bill WILL get passed, and our rights will be virtually none. This absurd bill even includes rights for them to take pets!!!! Please help out.