Council Tax and Bailiffs. - Page 11

B.A.Ts · 15th August 2007, 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumpkin

just got in from work and baliff been and left me a nice note. it appears he has walked round the rear of my property (no gate but stack of chairs stopping the toddler escaping) to note what garden furniture we have. is this legal or is this trespassing? i am in process of dealing with my debt but via the council as i cant get a sympathetic view from baliff!

Bailiffs are never sympathetic they are out to get money by hook or by crook, My advice is to carry on paying the council what you can afford, they can refuse payment but often dont, tell the bailiff company that you will be dealing with the council from now on. As Watcher said its not illegal for a bailiff to enter a back garden as long as they dont cause any damage, just dont let them into your property.

B.A.Ts · 15th August 2007, 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Watcher

Perfectly legal (he could even climb over a fence if he didn't do any damage).

Depending on the value of the garden furniture (and also compared to your debt) - why not let him take it?

If they take it Watcher they will only bump up charges for removal and storage

Kittykat73 · 15th August 2007, 19:17

i currently have an outstanding debt with medway borough council to which i went to see the warrent officer and set up a payment plan to which i have been paying by direct debit on time ever since.
This morning a bailiff from rundle and Co. came to my door regarding a debt with the council on arrears of council tax and i told him that i had set up a payment plan already and was paying direct to the council.
He then phoned up the warrant officer in front of me and said that the amount he was after was for a different time and that i still needed to pay this amount.So stupidly i agreed to pay this debt and in my stupidity and eagerness to just get it out of the way allowed him in to use my hall desk to fill in an agreement ,well thats what i thought i was doing.
He asked me how much i could pay per month and found out the debt owing to the council is 177.49 and with his mevy fee of 27.00 and attendance/removal fee of 90.00 the total was now 294.49.
i said as i was a single parent on benefits the most i could pay was £15.00 per month and that was tops as i already pay £25.00 direct to the council for arrrears. he then said no this wouldnt do and that i would have to pay £30.00 per month or he would take goods away now.He then looked about and started asking about items he could see and wrote down my 2 sofas/televison and display cabinet in my living room and then i had to sign the walking possession agreement to stop him removing these goods.

I just wanted this guy out of my house so i signed it and he left.
my probem is now i cannot afford to pay this £30.00 per month he insists on what can i do to stop him taking my items?
Any help wpuld be grateful.

B.A.Ts · 15th August 2007, 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kittykat73

i currently have an outstanding debt with medway borough council to which i went to see the warrent officer and set up a payment plan to which i have been paying by direct debit on time ever since.
This morning a bailiff from rundle and Co. came to my door regarding a debt with the council on arrears of council tax and i told him that i had set up a payment plan already and was paying direct to the council.
He then phoned up the warrant officer in front of me and said that the amount he was after was for a different time and that i still needed to pay this amount.So stupidly i agreed to pay this debt and in my stupidity and eagerness to just get it out of the way allowed him in to use my hall desk to fill in an agreement ,well thats what i thought i was doing.
He asked me how much i could pay per month and found out the debt owing to the council is 177.49 and with his mevy fee of 27.00 and attendance/removal fee of 90.00 the total was now 294.49.
i said as i was a single parent on benefits the most i could pay was £15.00 per month and that was tops as i already pay £25.00 direct to the council for arrrears. he then said no this wouldnt do and that i would have to pay £30.00 per month or he would take goods away now.He then looked about and started asking about items he could see and wrote down my 2 sofas/televison and display cabinet in my living room and then i had to sign the walking possession agreement to stop him removing these goods.

I just wanted this guy out of my house so i signed it and he left.
my probem is now i cannot afford to pay this £30.00 per month he insists on what can i do to stop him taking my items?
Any help wpuld be grateful.

Get onto your council immediately you are classed as a vulnerable case .. explain this to the council and tell them it is impossible for you to pay these two debts as you are a single parent on benefits.. ask them to take back this debt and tell them to take it out of your benefits,, This should have been done in the first place before it even went to court. This is totally outrageous. did you tell the bailiff you was in receipt of benefits.. if you did then he should of referred this debt back to the council. Go and see the debt adviser at the CAB they may be able to get the council to take back the debt on your behalf

Kittykat73 · 16th August 2007, 00:55

thanks for the help and yes i did tell him i was on benefits and that was already paying some to the council but he still demanded £30 per month on top of the £25 i am already paying directly to the council.
I wil try the CAB route to see if i can get it returned to the council thanks.

B.A.Ts · 16th August 2007, 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kittykat73

thanks for the help and yes i did tell him i was on benefits and that was already paying some to the council but he still demanded £30 per month on top of the £25 i am already paying directly to the council.
I wil try the CAB route to see if i can get it returned to the council thanks.

I have just read what he has listed in the WPO.. he cannot levy on these items apart from the cabinet, he can only take a second TV and certainly NOT your sofas. this is in fact classed an an illegal levy and therefor cannot charge for it.he cannot charge for a removal fee as he has not yet removed your items so again this is an illegal charge. I suggest you put in a complaint to the bailiff company and your local council. when writing to the bailiff company ask for his certificate number and where he was certified and then I suggest you complain to the court where he was certified. In the mean time pay the debt straight to the council. It is unlikely they will not accept it.

tomtubby · 16th August 2007, 13:04

Tell the bailiff that you are going to report him to the local authority and also the court that certificated him.

This is because you can apply for deductions to be made at a nominal rate from your income support payment to pay towards your arrears of Council Tax.

The amount of deduction is set by law at £2.90 per week for a single debtor and £4.55 per week for a couple. This amount is irrespective of the amount owed. The regulation for this is below.

• Council Tax (Deductions from Income Support) Regulations 1993 S.I. 1993/494.

Kittykat73 · 17th August 2007, 13:06

went to see the CAB they were less than useless they said basically that now because he has the walking possesion i should just pay him what he asked for and shouldnt have allowed him in, well i know that now lol but that not the answer to my problem.
I also spoke to the warrant officer at medway council and asked for it to be recalled and added to what i already pay them but they said unless it was a fault on the councils side they cannot recall the debt and its up to Rundle and Co. whether they decide to return it or not.
I am supposed to pay the first installment of £30.00 today friday the 17th or the bailliff stated on the possesion he will return monday if i do not pay this amount.
I dont have it to pay.
If he returns on monday for the items on the list and i say that hes not entitled to the tv and sofas what will he do can he then take anything else he chooses from my house?

The Watcher · 17th August 2007, 13:33

Did you not tell the Council that you are on benefits (and therefor the amount that they can deduct is limited by law)?

Kittykat73 · 17th August 2007, 14:00

yes they know im on benefits and said that bcos im already paying an overpayment of benefit back out of my benefits they cant accept the repayment via this method.I wrote down all incoming benefits and outgoings from them and they came up with the £25.00 per month payment back to them.They know this £25.00 is the very most i can afford but yet they still wont help me knowing i cannot afford to pay the £30 to the bailiff.
They said the only way was to write to the bailiff company and give them evidence of my benefits and hope that they may reduce the amount they are asking for.
I cant see them budging as they deny all the phone calls and letters i have sent to them ever existing.
The same bailiff that is on my case delt with someone i used to work with a few years back and he turned up at their door at 6am ringing on the door. They leant out of the window to see who it was and he identified himself as the police and flashed some kind of badge .Only when they went down to answer the door he said he was a bailiff.She sent him packing and he then threatened her that he would force his way in past her if necessary to get what he was after, very nice chap this bailiff .

tomtubby · 17th August 2007, 14:47

Have you checked to see if the bailiff is certificated. If he is not, then any levy would be cancelled as unenforceable.

The Watcher · 17th August 2007, 15:00

deleted

Kittykat73 · 17th August 2007, 15:36

i checked with medway county court and the bailiff is registered with them but they said they dont have certification numbers for their bailiffs.

B.A.Ts · 17th August 2007, 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kittykat73

i checked with medway county court and the bailiff is registered with them but they said they dont have certification numbers for their bailiffs.

if you have a printer I suggest you print this off and show this to him especially under where it says vulnerable, then I suggest you take a print and taked it along to your council
Department for Constitutional Affairs - Enforcement - National Standards for Enforcement Agents

The Watcher · 17th August 2007, 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kittykat73

i checked with medway county court and the bailiff is registered with them but they said they dont have certification numbers for their bailiffs.

Around HALF of all bailiffs are NOT Certificated (which they need to be to enforce Council Tax debts).

Anyone working without Certification is breaking the law.

Naturally, the Council just want a result - so don;t really care (even though they have a duty of care).

The bailiff will fob you off by showing some ID card (which anyone can knock-up on a computer !

A genuine Certificate will be signed by a Judge and will be stamped by the Court. They are valid for 2 years, and will specify the firm the bailiff is working for (when Certification was applied for). If they have chenged employment the Certificate should be cancelled and a new one applied for ... therefor if your bailiff is working for firm A, but his Certificate says he is working for firm B, then its invalid and not lawful.

Kittykat73 · 17th August 2007, 17:35

ok so if the council say he is registered with them but they dont have certification numbers am i correct in thinking he may not have an official certificate or is it just the way this council trains/employs thier bailiffs?
If he may not be certified how do i find this information out if possible.
My 1 concern now is him turning up on monday bcos i didnt pay the £30.00 today with his walking possesion agreement and breaking in.This is the last thing i want to put my 2 children through.
Any ray of light in stopping this guy in his tracks would be appreciated.
I will be writing a letter to my local counciler explaining my vulnerable basis of getting the debt recalled but i know this will take time which i just dont have at the moment im on a ticking clock.
I did speak to the bailiff today also regarding my sofas not being allowed on the agreement but he said i have dining chairs so this classes as seating he can leave me with.

The Watcher · 17th August 2007, 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kittykat73

ok so if the council say he is registered with them but they dont have certification numbers am i correct in thinking he may not have an official certificate or is it just the way this council trains/employs thier bailiffs?
If he may not be certified how do i find this information out if possible.
.

That's right.

I believe the number to check his certification is 020 7189 2491.

You just tell them you want to check a bailiffs Certification and they will tell you the name of the Court that issued his Certificate (if any) and the date it expires. Also check the firm that he is working for with that on the database and make sure they tally !

They will need his name (including first name) and the firm he is working for. (If you don't have his first name either contact the bailiff firm or him directly and ask - that will put the frighteners up them as they will know what you are doing !!!!)

Just one word of caution - their records are usually pretty accurate but there can be slight delays with updating their database (ie if he has been Certificated within the last couple of weeks it may not be on there yet).

Kittykat73 · 17th August 2007, 18:18

thanks ever so much for the phone number they were very helpful.
apparently my bailiff got his certificate on 18th november 2004 which ran out 18th november 2006.They didnt get a renewal one so set up a hearing at medway county court 5th february 2007 to get his renewal done they still has of yet not got any details of whether he either turned up or was granted the renewal.
The lady i spoke to was very helpful and said that any letters that had been sent by him to my property between 18th november 2006 and 5th february 2007 means that he has broken the law.
They will be phoning me urgently monday morning to verify after asking the court whether he is indeed still a certificated bailiff so this may be my light at the end of the tunnel i needed thanks.=)

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