Baliffs and council

[brecken]

I all, I have started a new thread because I am trying to help my neighbour with a problem she has with the local council and BALIFF.

she received a visit this week, she wasnt in so he left a letter with the amount owed and his telephone number, she has phoned the local council,
She ask the council if she could make payments directly to them and they said yes if it was ok with the baliff.
I phoned the baliff pretending to be her because the poor woman is at her wits end, he told me he would not except payment directly to the council and she would have to pay him directly, he also said he would come back next week with some forms to fill in, I told him there was no point cos he wouldnt get in and he said that was fine he would leave the paper work at the house for her to fill in.
I told him I would pay his call charges directly to him and the balance of the council tax to the council, he said no, but the council have just excepted a payment of £145 by debit card, does this then mean the debt is back with them or does she indead have to pay the baliff direct.
Please help.

[demon_x_slash]

Consider there to be two 'debts' - the Council Tax, and the bailiff charges. She can keep paying online/via debit card with the Council, and this will clear the Council tax debt. This is ALL the Council are concerned with, getting the monies owed to them. It doesn't matter what the bailiff thinks - he's seeing the 'Brucie Bonus' he probably extracts from people through extortionate charging disappearing down the plughole with regards to your friend's account.
Zooman's invaluable post: here. He is entitled to payment for any visits he has actually made. Have a read through and count up how many times he's visited, if he's posted any letters, etc. This is all he should get from your friend, as this is the bailiff charges debt. That should finish it off, as she will have paid all monies owing.

[brecken]

Thanks demon, I phoned on her behave and I have to say he wasnt very helpful, he said he would be happy to except a debit card payment for his charges and I could pay the balance direct to the council, but then he phoned back and changed his mind, said he had spoken to council and they gave him athourisation to persue the debt, even though they have excepted a payment this morning with her debit card.
Now he is insisting she fills in a form to make a payment preposal direct to him
But she doesnt want to face him, which I can appreciate.
Do you think she should leave him a cheque for his charges pinned to the door or send his firm the cheque ans just continue to pay the council, do you think this would keep him away.
Brecks x

[i_spam]

Is your freind on any sort of benefits ? As it has got this far. The council have a liability order. If your freind tells the council in writing about her benfit(is/jsa) etc then the council will start deducting £2.90 per week direct. She needs to go to the council office and speak to somebody and also take proof with her. Once the original debt with the council is cleared the warrant will be recalled and the bailiff will not be able to collect anything. I know this as he will not have any authority.

[brecken]

Thanks for that, no she is not on benefits Im affraid, but she has made a payment of £145 to the council which leaves a balance of £700, which she wants to pay off in £100 instalments, the thing is the council have told her they are willing to except direct payments to them but the payment arrangment has to be made via baliff, she really nervous about dealing with baliffs and is refusing to answer door to him, do you think she should just keep paying the council each month, I beleive the ballif can only charge 2 times if he doesnt gain entry, surley he will get sick of calling if he doesnt get an answer.

[demon_x_slash]

Originally Posted by brecken

the council have told her they are willing to except direct payments to them

So keep doing that. The debt will soon clear.

I think that the bailiff is entitled to the first and second visit fees but if a warrant is recalled (ie the debts are paid off with the Council) the bailiff is entitled to nothing more. PM someone with more experience of bailiffs, though, as this part is only what I recall from another thread.

I repeat, he is never allowed into her home unless she allows him - he is never allowed to force entry unless he has previously gained access.

[i_spam]

If the council recalls the warrant the bailiff can do squat all fee wise as nothing has been signed etc. Call the police if problems persist and also do not let the bailiff in even if the police say so .

[brecken]

Please let me update you on whats happened, Baliff turned up an hour ago at 8.30, just has my friend was getting her kids ready for school ( swine ) knocked her off guard so to speak, anyway she kept him at the door and agrred to a re payment arrangment, but she told him she would be paying it directly to the council, his reply was.

I cant except a payment arrangment unless I come in and take an inventry this is so if you default I have some back up to call again.

That doesnt sound right to me.
and

He aslo said, if you dont pay my company direct the arrangment wont stand.
Again this doesnt sound right to me.

She has asked him to leave the paper work so she can fill it in, I have told her she shoulndt have taken anything from him, so should she just ignore what he has given her or should she fill it in and send it back to him.

He said if he doesnt recevie the signed repayment plan he would keep calling.

[cankster]

Whatever u do do not let the bailiff in.

keep paying the council, after 30 days the bailiff will have to send the file back to the court and you will owe him nothing.

[demon_x_slash]

Originally Posted by brecken

I cant except a payment arrangment unless I come in and take an inventry this is so if you default I have some back up to call again.

That doesnt sound right to me.

He aslo said, if you dont pay my company direct the arrangment wont stand.
Again this doesnt sound right to me.

She has asked him to leave the paper work so she can fill it in, I have told her she shoulndt have taken anything from him, so should she just ignore what he has given her or should she fill it in and send it back to him.

He said if he doesnt recevie the signed repayment plan he would keep calling.

No - this 'inventory' was him trying to get her to sign a Walking Possession Agreement, which basically means that if he thinks she has defaulted with him, he can turn up and take the goods listed on the 'inventory'. Bad show, tricksy bailiff. Don't let her 'fill it in'.
As said countless times before, she must SIGN NOTHING. Keep paying the council directly. He probably will keep calling - he can do so until the warrant (ie the order from the council to chase the money) is recalled. They will do this when the money owed to them is repaid.

[brecken]

He as been back, she was'nt in so he has left a notice of distress, which has a inventry which states wooden garden shed + contents value £1110.75, cant see how he got to the shed cos the side gate was locked and the shed was locked, he has crossed out the bit that says walking possession agreement so she hasnt signed anything,

Does this mean he cant seize the goods, cos she didnt agree to it

He has also added a levy fee of £45 plus his costs £22.50 & £16.50.

Should she pay this amount by cheque directly to the baliff then continue to pay council the rest.

Or should she just fill in the Request to pay by instalements and pay them direct.
Thanks for your help.

[Tristesse]

Did he gain access to the shed? If she hasn't signed anything then keep paying the cash direct to the council, I'm not exactly sure but if he hasn't be able to carry out an inventury then he could be blagging.

[brecken]

There is nothing listed on the inventry apert from, wooden garden shed and contents, he hasnt listed the contents. and nothing as been signed.

[blfuk1]

Originally Posted by brecken

He as been back, she was'nt in so he has left a notice of distress, which has a inventry which states wooden garden shed + contents value £1110.75, cant see how he got to the shed cos the side gate was locked and the shed was locked, he has crossed out the bit that says walking possession agreement so she hasnt signed anything,

Does this mean he cant seize the goods, cos she didnt agree to it

He has also added a levy fee of £45 plus his costs £22.50 & £16.50.

Should she pay this amount by cheque directly to the baliff then continue to pay council the rest.

Or should she just fill in the Request to pay by instalements and pay them direct.
Thanks for your help.

The levy fee to me is a bit dubious. He may have quite legally climbed a wall to access the area where the shed is and may have seen inside, if it has a window. Clearly, he has tried to levy on something/anything to both secure the debt and to [obviously] raise a levy fee. He cannot seize the shed itself as that would be classed as an outbuilding - and you can't seize buildings. Is he entitled to the levy fee? I think he would be on very dodgy ground as he has not identified any specific goods in order that you (and he) knows what he has taken 'possession' of. I would argue against it.

Is he entitled to force entry to the shed to remove the goods? Most definately not -as you say it was locked and he could not have got in to levy. In any event, he would not know what to remove as he has not listed anything. This practice of levying on anything in order to get a levy fee is not good practice and I would not condone levying anything just to raise the fee unless you can specifically state what item(s) have been levied so all concerned are aware.

For the other issues I would not of course condone trying to bypass the bailiff! If I was advised a debtor was attempting to make direct payments, I would try even harder to enforce against them.

My advice, for what it's worth, would be to offer to pay the legitimate £39 plus the outstanding council tax. If this cannot be paid at once you must expect to permit the bailiff to secure any arrangement by levying on goods which would be removed if you defaulted. This would add £45 levy fee plus £11 walking possession. No one gets credit for free! Any arrangement should be confirmed at the time in writing stating how much has to be paid and at what dates. Provided you stick to that they can have no reason to remove or attend to remove your goods. It's always a good idea to get the arrangement sorted before permitting the bailiff to levy!

[demon_x_slash]

Personally, I would continue paying directly to the council.

Why would you try and enforce harder (your words), blfuk1, if you found your 'customer' trying to pay directly to their creditor? At no point has the OP been advised not to pay the bailiff what he is due - as long as he has actually made those visits. I think that you will agree with me when I say that this bailiff does not seem to be playing by the book (surprise!) by trying this dodgy levy, all to get a fee, I might add.

So if he is using this dodgy practice, how is the OP to know that all their friend's payments are actually going to pay off the debt, and not disappearing into Mr Bailiff's trouser pocket as soon as he gets down the road and out of sight? If you read around this forum, the above appears to be a common occurrence. IMHO, it's safer and more traceable to pay direct than to be confunded and bamboozled by a gorilla in a man suit on your own doorstep.

Thank you for the clarification on the shed issue - I had a feeling he had to have things itemised on a WP, i.e. Garden shed, content: Lawnmower £XX, Bicycle £XXX, etc., and couldn't just put 'shed'.

(I had a vision just now that made me chuckle - the bailiff turning up with a crane, him half hanging out of the cab, trying to pick the shed up by its roof to levy, and everything falling out of the bottom, kerplunk )

[brecken]

Thanks everyone,
My friend has a number for the baliff she is going to phone him and argue the levy fee, do you think this is a good idea, if so what words should she use, is it really true that he cant take the shed cos its a out building.
thanks
brecken x

[i_spam]

If a bailiff shows his ugly mug then call the police and explain what you have been advised to do quote the law etc. Mr bailiff will soon scarper back undernaeath the rock he came from.