N244 refused - bailiff just came and took car

deano_ratpac · 8th July 2008, 07:26

Good morning,
i've just had an early rise, bailiff came and took my car.

history

went to court over N244 application, it was refused, explained no contact before bailiff. received letter from court, wrote a letter to Kingston council regarding the charge, as judge said to do so.
anyways go a ring this morning with a bailiff standing there after already taking the car to the pound.

where do i stand. i had no way of paying they just turned up and took the car, hugely putting up the fee now to £1096.36.

isn't there supposed to be contact made by the bailiff other than snatching the property?

please help!

tomtubby · 8th July 2008, 07:47

I cant remember whether or not our office helped you with a Subject Access Request or not . In any event whenever we assist with an Out of Time or N244 we always recommend that you use this time scale to write to the bailiff co to request full details of the fees and charges. Was this done, of so what fees have been charged.

Can you pm me with the name of the bailiff who attended. Did he leave any documents etc ?

deano_ratpac · 8th July 2008, 08:27

to keep thread up to date...

there was no contact from the bailiff company after recieving decision from court, wrote letter to council explaining situation. no response.
bailiff had obviously loaded car early on, around 6am according to his notes, he knocked on my door at 7:49am, handed me documents saying they will sell the car if i do not collect it, and then walked off.

i checked outside and the car was not to be seen

WWOW · 8th July 2008, 11:16

Download a Form 4: http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/form4_0606.pdf In the Details of Complaint, enter: (tweak as necessary)

Quote:

I was visited by a firm of bailiffs [NAME OF FIRM] on [DATE] at [TIME] who posted the attached demand through my door and left the scene after taking my car [MAKE AND MODEL] [REGISTRATION]. The person didn't knock the door or make reasonable effort to contact anyone before taking it at 06:30am. The demand is for £[AMOUNT] of which £[AMOUNT] are bailiffs fees.

The bailiff took my car to obtain higher fees then he would otherwise have made if he had carried out his duties honestly and made contact with me. I also contend the time he called at my address and the extent of his fees for moving a car is unreasonably high and inflated.

I understand it is an offence to defraud a debtor with bailiff’s fees which are not prescribed by law or incorrectly executed.

I have tried to reach a resolve with the firm who became defensive and vexatious in nature and I respectfully ask that I am compensated for my time in handling this firm’s conduct and for my efforts in discovery of information.

I also ask that I am refunded the bailiff’s fees and my car and its contents are returned to me undamaged at no cost to myself from the bailiffs bond.

This route wont get fast results, it could be months before the bailiff goes before the judge.

If you can do it, pay the bailiff with a credit card and get your car back. He’ll charge you a 3% fee. As charging a fee to process a regulated credit transaction between a borrower (you) and a lender (your credit card) is a breach of contract between the bailiff and his merchant service provider, you can recover the money from the bailiff’s bank under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Contact your bank for a chargeback form. The bailiff cannot enforce the same debt twice.

Remember the council is liable for any damage to your goods so you must take it to a bodyshop when you get it back and get receipts for everything, including missing contents iPOD Laptop SATNAV, mobiles etc.

Is your car on finance? Then it belongs to the finance company & the bailiff cannot sell the car (the new owner would only lose it). A TVR is an expensive piece of hardware & I can see why the bailiff was keen to target it. Tell your local TVR dealer (have chassis number ready) you car has been stolen and they'll notify the dealer network and inform you if anybody tries to get a new immobiliser key. You can go to the dealership with your V5 and collect your car.

Send a Subject Access Request on CCS enclosing a cheque for £10 scan a copy of the cheque showing the cheque number and date.

Quote:

Name of firm of bailiffs
FAO the Data Controller
Address 1
Address 2
Address 3
Address 4

[DATE]

Dear Sir/Madam

Re: [YOUR NAME + REF]: Subject Access Request

I write pursuant to Section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998 and enclose payment of £10 the maximum prescribed under the Act and request you send me the following six items.

a) An itemised breakdown of all the fees charges orders costs and other monies that make up the total obtained by your bailiff being £[AMOUNT]

b) The name and address of the court that certificated the bailiff in charge who acts in this matter

c) The certificate number of the aforementioned bailiff

d) All letters documents emails comments faxes personal opinions memos and other related information which would qualify as information defined under the Act.

e) Written confirmation your fees of £[AMOUNT] and confirm they are truthfully compliant with legally prescribed bailiffs fees.

f) The name and address of the person or body who instructed you and the date of instruction.

I appreciate the Act allows you 40 days to fulfill this request but I look forward to receiving the above at your earliest convenience.

This document is delivered by Royal Mail and I deem it good service on you by the ordinary course of post under Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978. It is now your responsibility and in your own interests this letter is handed to the relevant person within your organisation.

Yours Sincerely

YOUR NAME

For future reference, if the bailiffs fail to comply with any of the six points in the request then you can reclaim the total amount paid to the bailiffs in the small claims track. Sign up of money claim online here: https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco/login_pass_yes01.jsp

And in the particulars of claim, enter:

Quote:

On [DATE] I was charged by the defendant, a firm of bailiffs the sum of £[AMOUNT] as fees, charges and unknown items and threatened me with penalties if I failed to pay according to a deadline. Their fees and charges are inconsistent with [NAME OF LEGISLATION]. I sent the defendant a Subject Access Request under Section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998 enclosing a £10 cheque numbered [NUMBER] which was cashed on [DATE]. The defendant failed to comply within the prescribed time limit and I have tried to seek a reasonable resolve with the defendant who refuses to cooperate. I ask the defendant to may me the sum of £[AMOUNT] plus interest from [DATE] plus costs allowed by the court.

If you have grounds to appeal then go with TomTubby on this. If you are 100% sure you can win an appeal then you can buy a new car (like-for-like) and charge it with the finance charges to the Council.

Saffronflowers · 8th July 2008, 11:32

WWoW - trawling through my memory on Bailiffs am I not correct in thinking tht this would be a disprortionate levy on the sum actually owed and would not reach its true value at auction. If it did go to auction then the Bailiffs would undoubtedly owe money back to the OP. Might be thinking rollocks but something is niggling me regarding value and levy IYSWIM.

Sfx

WWOW · 8th July 2008, 11:58

You are right.

I've addressed it in P2 on the Form 4 complaint. Its really up to a judge to interpret whether £1096.36 is unreasonable for collecting an original debt of £155.00, I'm not sure how a bailiff can provide receipts for the exact figures of 211.50 tow truck and £191.29 for bailiff’s paraphernalia. The law doesn’t prescribe 'immobilisation' or 'porterage' fees. It appears the bailiff has made them up to artificially inflate his fees.

Theres an issue on the value of the goods levies & yes ISWYM. The bailliff can sell the goods as a disproportionately low price at auction then he would otherwise obtain on (say) Ebay. Often the bidders are other bailiffs who moonlight as car traders & hence why it was targeted. A TVR convertible is hot property to car traders.

Obtaining a money transfer in this way is technically an offence under S2 of the Fraud Act 2006 and I'm assuming for the moment, this is over a parking ticket in a London Borough & we have yet to see the original ticket and grounds of appeal.

deano_ratpac · 8th July 2008, 12:55

wwow,

Thank you for your reply, i am going to collect the car today, they damaged it last time, so hopefully it will be in one piece!! the car is worth about 18K+ its paid up in full. will use credit card to pay for release and go from there. really, really appreciate the letters above will certainly use those!! at no point have they made it easy, in the first instance when the debt was low i called the bailiff to pay, no return of call, next day turned up and the cost had trebled to 416! i had filed at SDOT. and they removed the clamp and went on. they picked it up and then added more and more to the account, making it ridiculous! hopefully the courts will see the side of the outrageous costs and the bonus of taking my car.

would it worth transferring into a family member?

there's no debt/finance on the car - i own it outright

deano_ratpac · 8th July 2008, 13:23

i just thought i would add this:
i was passing the local court 5 minutes ago, when i actually bumped into the Judge who dismissed my N244, i went on to explain that the Bailiffs had taken the car this morning, without asking for money. she nearly fell over when i told her the costs. she went on to explain what an outrage this was! funny that.

then the amusing part, the other day she got clamped - and paid with debit card... karma

Saffronflowers · 8th July 2008, 14:32

DR - Please take this in the manner that it is meant - You really should take more care of your car especially if it is worth £18K! This is the second time in 6 months you have had your car towed for unpaid parking tickets! Not only is costly to you but also very stressful! Personally, i would sell it and invest the money in an isa and ihire a car when you need one - far cheaper than the repair bills and bailff charges

SFx

WWOW · 8th July 2008, 15:33

SFx. That's easier said than done. When you drive a perfromance car, its all for show. I was a speed-freak in my 20's with a Lotus Esprit Turbo which guzzled all my pre-marital spare cash I had.

I couldn't hire a performance car at 25, and even if I could it has no pose-material aspect when it comes to showing off to young single women and putting out the big-I-am in the street. Unfortunately, performance cars also attract the wrong kind of attention, police and parking wardens. Its a hazzard of driving one.

Saffronflowers · 8th July 2008, 15:53

WWOW - that made me laugh - I will stick to my VW Camper that pootles around at 60mph (downhill with a tail wind) and realise at my venerable age (40 going on 20!) that it is not how quick you get somewhere it is the journey that is the fun bit! Annoyingly though my husband seems to find it quite a good pulling mobile.

Seriously though back to my younger days rarely did the car a young man drive impress me. But then again none of them drove a jenson interceptor!

On a serious note DR, what I am saying is slightly toungue in cheeck but it might be worth thinking about even for a fleeting moment and do remember that WWoW does get to play really big boys toys so he is not all that grown up!

SFx

deano_ratpac · 8th July 2008, 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saffronflowers

DR - Please take this in the manner that it is meant - You really should take more care of your car especially if it is worth £18K! This is the second time in 6 months you have had your car towed for unpaid parking tickets! Not only is costly to you but also very stressful! Personally, i would sell it and invest the money in an isa and ihire a car when you need one - far cheaper than the repair bills and bailff charges

SFx

SF,

it does sicken me when my car is taken, they see it as a prize, i have done everything i can to stop this, calls, court the lot. but when someone goes outside the law, when you contact them, in both occasions i have called the bailiff - to which they did not returns calls after offering payment, instead they both turned up with ramped up charges!

it is my pride and joy, what it is worth is really negligent - its a passion of mine and will not get rid of it. in fact i have paid the car off in full, i want to enjoy it. it seems the bailiffs don't.

i already have ISA's which - well were doing ok. at the end of the day this has been a very steep learning curve, i won the last fight, now recouping costs, and plus the rest for damage to the car, and they will not get off lightly. if a bailiff has it in for the car and takes it from outside my home, apart from sleep in it - how do you protect it? i am following the processes of the courts - nothing else

all in all i have learnt a lot - and feel wiser for it - and really appreciate the help and advice given - thanks. i live in an area and work in London - where they are ruthless. i even the other day received 2 tickets again outside the house even when i have a parking permit clearly displayed!!!

thanks though for the advice, but the Cerbera stays with me!

CAG Products - We think that these will help you to make your claim or Reclaim your Right These sales also help us to keep helping YOU and ensure this site will remain free to use!

Small Claims Kit--	Small Claims Court Guide New Edition	Consumer Action Group envelope labels	Last Will & Testament Kit	Fight a Motoring Ticket

Alternatively you could purchase a CAG email address here, or maybe you'd prefer our address labels here
UPDATE: Consumer Forums ConsumerWiki is now LIVE - click here: ConsumerWiki