Bailiff query - Debt against car or owner?

[lucyec]

I have had a visit from a Bailiff this morning (8.30am on a saturday!) to collect on parking tickets. [edit: have since found out it's only one ticket] Whilst I don't fully agree with the tickets in the first place, I am the 'bury my head in the sand' type and me being me ignored the tickets and hoped they would go away.

Anyway, this note came through the door this morning saying a bailiff had been and that he would return expecting to "collect the sum (£284.10), as quoted above, or remove sufficient goods or chattels to cover the outstanding balance when sold at public auction." So I gave him a call and said that as I have no spare money I would be willing to give him my computer as payment. He said that he couldn't take that, I had to have the money or they would take away my car. As the debt is against the car they can't take any other goods as payment.

So my question is... is the debt against the car or me as the owner? And why can't they take other goods as payment when it states in the letter that they will 'remove sufficient goods' to cover the debt? It doesn't say they'll take the car and nothing else. Obviously the car is worth far more than £280 so surely that would be unfair?

Hope someone can help as I don't have a clue what to do. TIA

[sillygirl1]

Rubbish - put in a complaint against him, he can't just state that he will take the car as it is unlikely it will raise that much (unless it is an expensive one?) A lot of these cars are taken because they can sell them cheap to each other and make a profit on the side. It would be very unfair to take more than the debt is worth - that is against bailiff rules. Get onto the traffic place at Northampton and put in out of time appeals against the fines.

[lucyec]

No, the car is not expensive, its a 51 plate Peugeot 206 with 70,000 miles on the clock and a falling off wing mirror - but still worth more than £280.00 I reckon!

To whom do I complain about the bailiff please? And what's a 'time out appeal'? Sorry if I sound a bit dim, but I really don't have any experience of this sort of thing.

[tomtubby]

An Out of Time is a Statutory Declaration that you did not receive either the parking charge notice, notice to owner or that you complained about the PCN and did not get a Rejction Notice.

Out of Times are very simple and effective and our office does many of these each day. But you need to have grounds.

If you have the bailiffs name I will search our database to ensure that he is certificated. Please ONLY provide this info by private message.

YES, the bailiff will take the car and cars are taken all day long when enfrorcing a warrant of execution on behalf of The Traffic Enforcment Centre.

If the car is taken then there will be substantial extra fees and from cases that we have seen in our office this past week the total amount is normally around £750-£800. That is not to say that the fees are correct......I am simply stating what bailiffs are trying to charge at this moment.

Is the car on finance?

Which local authority did you incur the PCN in?

How old is the PCN?

Which bailiff co?

[lucyec]

The car isn't on finance. Local authority is Trafford Metropolitan Borough Council. I believe the PCN is from last year, but I think it's actually 2 of them. I dont have specific details unfortunately, but I can remember the incidents. One was me returning 5 mins late on a ticket I'd bought and the other was me mistakenly parking in a disabled area, although I had bought a ticket I just didn't read the sign properly (the side of the street with the ticket machine was 'normal' parking, the side I was actually parked on was apparently disabled only). As I say though, I was really stupid and just ignored them, so I'm not contesting the tickets. £30 may not seem a lot to some people, but it is to me and I just didn't have it to pay at the time. I am fully aware it is my own fault for letting it get this far and the charges mounting up. I'm just worried about how to pay them as the only real equity I have are my pc and car. I need my car to get to work though.

I only have the first name of the Bailiff, the company is Phoenix Commercial Collections.

If they take my car there is no way I can afford to get it back if they are charging the amounts that you mention tomtubby, it also means I can't get to work and will be without an income (I'm a single parent) I am willing to give my pc as payment, is this not acceptable? I'm guessing they don't take individual circumstances into consideration, so will just take the car no matter what.

[tomtubby]

It is so rare for a bailiff to take a computer. This is because of the data issues which would mean wiping the hard drive clear of any info. In addition there is the issue of the value of a second hand computer which is particularly worthless.

It is for this reason that bailiffs will remove a vehicle.

You need to also check whether the PCN is compliant.

Did the bailiff provide a breakdown as the amount seems steep for a £30 PCN?

[lucyec]

So I don't have a leg to stand on basically!

No, I don't have a break-down of costs. To be fair I didn't specifically ask as I was getting upset and needed to get off the phone. If it's for 2 pcns, they'll be £30 each, so i guess it could mount up to a lot more as they double it after a certain amount of time if its not paid don't they?

I have a 'week's grace' as the bailiff put it, because he is going on holiday he says. So I have the week to figure out what to do. Is it worth offering to pay in installments or is it unlikely to be accepted?

[sillygirl1]

YOU DO HAVE BOTH YOUR LEGS TO STAND ON HERE

The bailiff has contacted you demanding money WITHOUT a breakdown of the costs. You now need to contact the parking fine people and ask for an out of time declaration to appeal against the original tickets.

Contact Tomtubby about the bailiff as he sounds as if he is pulling a fast one on you.... the amount he is quoting seems wrong. I don't drive and I'm not an expert on parking fines but I do know a little bit about bailiff fees.

[lucyec]

Sorry to have to drag this up again. The bailiff has put the charges up again...

I received a phone call today which I missed. (I am currently away staying with my mum) So I've just returned the call and the bailiff has told me that I now owe £469 because he's been round to my house and I wasn't there. He has given me to 1pm tomorrow to pay in full or he will seize my car. He said he's given me ample opportunity to pay (ie the week he's been on holiday) and because he's unsuccessfully tried to contact me, the charges have increased. I have had a brief breakdown of what the charges are for over the phone; the original ticket that is being collected on (just the one) was £30, which the council increase to £60 then £90 and the rest are bailiff fees for visits and putting a piece of paper through my door last week to say he'd visited.

Is it me or does this sound unfair to anyone else? The only thing I can really do is scrape money together from family and hope that I can reclaim some charges somehow... if that's even possible?? I don't know what to do

[sillygirl1]

Send a PM to Tomtubby who can help, (a PM is a private message, click on his name and read the instructions). The Bailiff is acting out of order here - he can't increase his fees more than a certain amount and he can't threaten you as you are vulnerable.... you need to get Tomtubby's help asap.

[lucyec]

Thank you sillygirl1, I'll do that now.

[tomtubby]

I have received your message.

The bailiff company and the bailiff know very well that they MUST provide a detailed breakdown. I would suggest that you now ask them instead for a copy of the actual screen shot of the account.


By the way the fees are NOT right. !!!

[lucyec]

Have been told the charges as follows -

Original PCN = £90
1st letter = £5.00 (never received)
2nd letter = £13.16 (never received - unless this means the note dropped in on 1st visit)
1st visit = £34.94
1st visit levy & van = £141.00
2nd visit = £44.72
2nd visit levy & van = £141.00

TOTAL = £469.82

He is coming today at 1pm to collect money or car.

[lucyec]

I have filed the Out of Time forms and submitted them yesterday, just in time to stop him coming for the car. Now the next thing to do is fight the bailiff charges themselves... not sure where to go from here

[lucyec]

Another query I'm afraid... would I be able to pay the council for the PCN directly and then deal with the Bailiff charges separately? I'm not sure how to go about disputing these charges - does anyone know whereabouts i can find a template letter or something like that please? I'm not sure if its just me being dim, but I can't seem to see anything that I should be using!

Thank you.

[lucyec]

Latest update - received a letter through the post from the Phoenix (the first thing Ive had through the post!!), saying that I owe Trafford Metropolitan Borough Council 469.82 and I have 7 days to pay or they'll be sending the bailiff round again, in which case it'll increase the charges even more.

I take issue with this because I thought the case was that I actually only owe TMBC 90.00 for the pcn and the rest is bailiff fees which go to the bailiff and not the council don't they?

Also, as I have submitted and Out of Time Stat Dec, surely they should be leaving me alone until the outcome has been decided by the council?

I would be very grateful if anyone could help/advise me please, I'm getting very confused now

Thank you.

[tomtubby]

When an Out of Time has been filed all enforcment action must CEASE until such time as the application has been determinded by the TEC.

The bailiff company knows this very well !!!