Drakes Bailiffs - I WON!

[Skippy74]

Hello everybody,

My first post on this site - I wanted to tell you all with problems with bailiffs, particularly Drakes Group, that stick by your guns - you can win. I did.

My story starts back in September last year when one afternoon out of the blue arrived a bailiff officer on my front door - a Drakes Group bailiff.

I didn't answer the door, was out the back at the time. Came in to see him put something through the letterbox and drive away.

First I thought it was just a double glazing flyer or something. Then when I read it I realised he was a bailiff.

I immediately phoned him and asked him what the hell all this was about. He just referred me that is for a PCN dating back to September 2005.

This PCN was for being in a bus lane. I never received the PCN in the first place and was astounded at this. Contacting the relevant local London authority got me nowhere. As expected "nothing to do with us, it's gone to the bailffs".

Frightened by "stories" of bailiffs and not having any money to get a solicitor involved I was beside myself with worry.

My first problem was the bailiff from Drakes, who by now had visited 3 times. I never answered the door to him. On his last visit he left a notice saying he would be back that weekend to remove my property.

Before I could attack the problem of the PCN I had to stop the bailiff and put the PCN back in the control of the local authority where they would deal with me. Drakes contact number is just a recorded message that dumps you. Letters would take too long so I faxed them from work. Making sure I printed out the fax transmission report as proof of sending.

That's my first bit of advice - ALWAYS, ALWAYS GET PROOF OF SENDING. IF POSTING SEND REGISTERED POST (usually about £1.04 for a normal sized letter, or £4.30 for "track and trace") GET A CASH RECEIPT FROM THE POST OFFICE TOO ALONG WITH YOUR RECORDED DELIVERY COUNTERFOIL.

ALWAYS PRINT OUT A COPY OF YOUR LETTER FOR YOUR FILES. IT'S NO USE SAYING "It's OK, it's on me hard drive". PRINT A COPY AND STAPLE THE COUNTERFOIL AND RECEIPT TO IT. YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TOO MUCH PAPERWORK - IT'S ALL WORTH IT IN THE END.

Now, to cut a long story short - I did a lot of research on the web and found out from lots of really good websites and kind words from TomTubby on here what the situation was.

First of all I filed a "Late Statutory Declaration" with the TEC (Traffic Enforcement Centre" in Northampton.

This got the Warrant of Execution revoked and therefore removed the bailiff out of my way, supposedly and returned the owness back to the local London authority where I successfully challenged the PCNs (there were 3 of them and only one had gone as far as the courts, the middle one by 18 months! Go figure!)

With advice from TomTubby and Neil Herron of parkingappeals dot co dot uk it was very easy - AND I DO MEAN VERY EASY - to get these PCNs cancelled. Putting me in the light that the London authority were just "trying it on" in the first place. They cancelled the PCNs so quickly without a fight. They knew they had nothing to go on, but that didn't stop them trying to squeeze money out of me by intimidation. Look up "Barnet v. Moses" for the landmark court hearing on this one.

SECOND PIECE OF ADVICE: IT'S ALL ABOUT INTIMIDATION. DON'T WORRY - THERE REALLY IS NOTHING THEY CAN DO IF YOU ARE IN THE RIGHT. The whole process is based on intimidation. Like when you're driving down the road and a police car is behind you - you think "Hands at ten-to-two, don't even scratch your nose! Don't want to get pulled". You feel immediately guilty. Bailiffs, local authorites and private parking firms bank on this feeling of a rabbit caught in cars headlights.

Now, during the process of putting in the Late Statutory Declarations I made an enquiry to the TEC about the warrant. Not really knowing what this was all about. It was then, purely by accident, that I found out the warrant had expired weeks ago!

Warrants of Execution are applied for by the local authority, or whoever you have the alledged debt with and then handed to the bailiff to carry out his business. A bailiff is useless without one, he cannot apply for one himself. He is required to BY LAW to carry and show you the relevant warrant.

Drakes bailiffs only have a copy of the warrant with very little information on it. This is wrong and illegal and he was critisised for it in court.

Warrants of this type are valid for 12 MONTHS.

That meant that the bailiff was trying to enforce an OUT OF DATE and EXPIRED Warrant of Execution. ASK TO SEE THE WARRANT.

And he knew it. I asked for an explanation in writing from Drakes. They avoided the questions. I wrote twice, the second time threatening them with a "Form 4" complaint.

I had no joy with these scumbags so I downloaded a "Form 4" Complaint Against a Certified Bailiff, Distress for Rent Rules 1988, Rule 8.

I filled it in and sent it off to the County Court where the bailff was first certificated. Within a matter of weeks I received a notice that the bailiff was to attend a County Court hearing to explain to the judge as to why his certificate should not be removed.

THIRD BIT OF ADVICE: YOU HAVE THE POWER TO COMPLAIN AND GET A BAILIFFS CERTIFICATE CANCELLED IF HE HAS DONE WRONG.

In a hearing lasting just over an hour, where I was asked to take the witness stand and give my story of events, be examined by the judge and cross-examined by the Drakes "solicitor" (I use this term very loosely, read into that what you will) the judge upheld my compaint and the bailff was made to pay a fine of £2,000 with £1,000 coming to me as compensation for out of pocket expenses.

In the judges summing up Drakes were heavily criticised for their actions, as was the bailiff.

FOURTH GEM OF ADVICE: DRAKES ARE WELL KNOWN (ADMITTED IN COURT BY THE BAILIFF) FOR HANDING OUT WARRANTS THAT ARE CLOSE TO EXPIRY TO THIER OFFICERS. CHECK THE WARRANT WITH THE TEC. IT'S A PHONECALL AWAY!

I won. Just the look on the bailiffs face was enough for me. They think we don't know our rights. They think if we can't pay a £500 fine, we can't pay for a solicitor or court systems.

Drakes were pulled apart in court. They hadn't filed relevant information and they hadn't sent me a copy of the bailiffs statement. They did not impress the judge at all.

You don't have to pay anything to put in a "Form 4" complaint. Just download it, fill it in and send it off. DO NOT, PLEASE PEOPLE, DO NOT LET THEM GET AWAY WITH IT. THEY ARE SCUM AND THERE ARE RULES, REGULATIONS AND LAWS TO PROTECT US.

The more of us that complain the more chance we have of stopping these nasty people from inflicting this sort of harrassment and intimidation.

The law and the courts take a very, very dim and serious view of this breach of the law. Don't be fooled by the system, it does work if you make it work. But you have to be honest. Don't go making things up or covering facts up. It's not worth it.

My advice to people in this situation:

1) NEVER, EVER let a bailiff into your house. As stated elsewhere on this site it is not illegal. REFUSE to speak to them. Eventually they have to return the warrant to the local authority or company with their tail between their legs.

2) CHECK THE WARRANT AND ITS VALIDITY. ASK TO SEE THE WARRANT.

3) PRINT COPIES OF ALL CORRESPONDANCE BETWEEN YOU AND EVERYONE AND SEND EVERYTHING RECORDED DELIVERY AND GET A CASH RECEIPT. (Don't be daft and stick things through the franking machine at work!)

4) SEEK ADVICE ABOUT THE NATURE OF THE DEBT. If like me it was for a PCN then talk to the TEC at Northampton and see if you can file a Statutory Declaration.

5) REMEMBER IT'S ABOUT INTIMIDATION AND HARRASSMENT. DON'T GIVE IN.

6) IF THE BAILIFF ACTS IMPROPERLY FILE A "FORM 4" IMMEDIATELY.

I won because I was in the right and stuck to my guns and the bailiff acted unlawfully. Had I been more experienced about representing myself in court I could have had the book thrown at him. Drakes are a slimey little organisation who very cleverly spread the blame to get the "sentence" lowered - like copping an insanity plea! Had I been more on my toes I could have pulled lots of things apart, but alas I am still happy with the result.

Me 1
Drakes 0.

[10110001]

Well done! As for Drakes, what goes around comes around.

I wish our proceedings against Drakes were as straightforward as yours, our first complaint was dismissed by the judge, contradicted by another judge later. I had lost faith in filing Form 4's.

Our claim involves a tad more than £3,000, and hoping to reach a conclusion with Drakes within six months now. The council claim (breaking & entering and Fraud Act 2006) was settled in court last Feb.

[slick132]

Well done Skippy - A great result.

I'm sure others will find your story interesting and useful.

Slick

[tomterm8]

congratulations.

[tomtubby]

Skippy,


You had a great day, and thank you so much for sharing your experience with others here on Consumer Action.

This is another example that shows that if you have detailed paperwork you will do well.

Don't forget the transcript !!!

Many more people are taking their complaints to court via a Form 4 Complaint and your case demonstrates that you can succeed.

I was only too glad to assist you. Can you call me tomorrow...I have some gossip for you !!

WELL DONE !!!!!

[Saffronflowers]

Congrats to you and and go TT!!! It is amazing that if you dont let them get you down you can beat them. I would always advise filling in a very detailed form $, they are a powerful tool as I found out.

SFx

[PizzaMaker]

It is quite common for bailiff companies to send out warrants with only 2/3 weeks life on them. The main reason is that too much work and not enough bailiffs.

Also some councils "WASH" their work and will have a warrant returned by one bailff company and then pass onto another company and if they are not successful, they might pass onto a thrid company.

Please note that although the life of a warrant of execution is only 1 year, the council can reapply for a new warrant on the same ticket.

[tomtubby]

Pizza Maker.

A Warrant of Execution for an unpaid Parking Charge Notice CANNOT be renewed.

The following is from the Code of Practice relating to the Traffic Enforcment Centre.

Execution and expiry of a warrant of execution

9.21 On receipt of an authority from the TEC for the issue of a warrant of
execution, the Local Authority shall produce the warrant (PE9) within

seven days

from the date of authorisation (see Annex 17).

9.22 A copy of the warrant must be forwarded to a Certificated Bailiff for
execution. The warrant must be enforced as a county court warrant.
The certificated bailiff must have the warrant in his personal possession
when he visits a person or premises with a view to enforcing it and he
must produce it on demand to anyone who has reasonable grounds to
see it.

9.23 As the warrant is, effectively, a county court warrant it takes its priority from the date the Local Authority applied for its issue. A warrant is valid for one year, and will not be extended.

9.24 The Local Authority shall withdraw an unsatisfied warrant from the bailiff 12 months from the date of issue. The TEC will therefore consider a
warrant to have ‘expired’ one year and seven days after the date of
authorisation.

9.25 Warrants cannot be renewed.

[PizzaMaker]

I agree. The warrant can not be renewed but they can apply for a new warrant on the same PCN.

[davey77]

Nice result.. well done!

[chef 007]

Hi

So pleased to hear you won, its my turn tomorrow. I too am getting help from tomtubby and this person is great! Nice to see someone else decide to fight back, however there needs to be some law in place to stop the likes of Drakes from terrorising and bullying people as they do? any ideas? Did you get a solicitor eventually or did you go yourself?

regards

Chef 007

[Screw The Bailiff]

Originally Posted by chef 007

Hi

So pleased to hear you won, its my turn tomorrow. I too am getting help from tomtubby and this person is great! Nice to see someone else decide to fight back, however there needs to be some law in place to stop the likes of Drakes from terrorising and bullying people

There is, unfortunately the courts tend to ignore them. There's a classic case involving a Drakes bailiff who was working with an expired certificate.

There was a small claims case against the authority to recover damages, and the judge in that proceeding made a finding of fact that the bailiff was uncertificated. A complaint was then filed at the bailiffs certificating court and the judge dismissed it.

So we have two Judges sitting at different courts at roughly the same time considering the same facts, and they contradicted each other in their rulings.

[chef 007]

Hi I WON TOO!!!!!!!!!

Message to all of you out there being bullied by Drakes , I am more than happy to share my experience with you, to help you to stand up to those legal thiefs. The Judge ruled that it was illegal for Drakes to charge an Attend To Remove Charge of £120.00 plus VAT, nor could they Charge for a Van to remove goods @ £120.00plus VAT nor could they immobilise a vehicle before knocking on your door and charging for the clamp!!!!! I paid nothing as a result, ie I was compensated (much more than I was Charged !) and the Judge wiped the floor with Drakes.

Leave me an email address if you want to know more.

Come on everyone lets beat them into the ground!!!!

[Screw The Bailiff]

Yes please, PM sent.

[Saffronflowers]

Chef - this is very useful info - could you put it in its own thread so that we can all take a look - if not could you pm me - thank you and well done

Sfx

[Screw The Bailiff]

Originally Posted by chef 007

Hi I WON TOO!!!!!!!!!
The Judge ruled that it was illegal for Drakes to charge an Attend To Remove Charge of £120.00 plus VAT, nor could they Charge for a Van to remove goods @ £120.00plus VAT...

Since you now have a finding of fact, report the bailiff for a criminal prosection using this letter.

Keep us posted.