What can I do about unreasonable bailiff costs?

[boatman63]

I live on a boat and have had some very high bills fixing the engine. As a result did not get my British Waterways Licence paid in time. Result a CCJ. Two days ago someone came to my postal address (a friends house) and left a letter asking for the depbt plus very high costs.

The dept to BW is about £620. The bailiff is asking for £1400 He says that he is a high court enforcement officer which is why the fees are so high. He also says that he is entitled to tow my boat. I have no intention of not paying the debt, but want to know if the company is entittled to charge so high fees. Also are they permitted to tow my boat as it is my sole residence?

If I pay them is there any way I can claim these costs back?

Could I go and pay British Waterways and not the bailiffs?

Can someone help me with some advice please.

[CourtOfficerSpeaks]

If you pay it, then pay the sheriffs not the claimants, it will take ages to get your certificate if you don't. Also if you DO owe it, then yes theres not a lot you can do about the fees.

From what your saying you sound like everyone else i speak to daily, saying fees are high, not always true.

Check firstly that all £780 are sheriffs fees, you'll probably find their not. you've got court fees, intitial debt, interest, transfer up fees, THEN officers fees!.

Also he may be a baliff with just a county court judgement, make sure he has a writ first - then you know your dealing with the sheriff.

They probably won't send you a copy though.

P.S Yes we could if it came to it, tow your boat, home or not.

[CourtOfficerSpeaks]

Note here - if you applied to the courts for hearing and the judge ruled you weren't liable, then yes you could claim back the fees - hence the reason we always say, pay it, then dipsute it. You'll ALWAYS save money in the long run if you can do this. However if you DO apply, remember, a judge can also rule that you are STILL liable and will most likely add on about £200 costs. Only dispute fees if your sure.

[10110001]

There is no such thing as unreasonable bailiff costs, they are lawful or they are not.

Towing a boat is probably within the remit of a bailiff but he will need a reality check. A bailiff towing your boat has nowhere to take it, moorings are expensive and hard to come by, he probably doesn’t have a tug, and if you’re living on the boat as your principle home then they bailiff needs to re-house you first.

Tomtubby can check his fees against the prescribed schedule and his certificate and credit license. If there’s an irregularity then you will probably not have to pay any bailiffs fees.

See if you can close a deal with the creditor. If they turn down an offer payment, it scuppers legal action they bring later.

[boatman63]

Hi "CourtOfficerSpeaks"

Thanks for your advice. The debt to British Waterways is £550. On top of that is the court fees from the county court and interest totalling about £150. The Enforcement Officer has added another £100 in court fees and £606 in his own costs. Also he says that he is a High Court Enforcement Officer but I don't think he is. Does that make any difference?

The company is called Shereforce. They have some High court enforcement officers listed on their web site but the guy who has contacted me is not one of these, even though he claims to be a HCEO.

I will pay them in full next week (pay day) Do you think these fees are on the high side and worth persuing or do they seem reasonable to you?

[madmax1973]

Hi, "boatman63"

I have a similar problem with the same company. A total debt of £2272 inc court costs and trimmings has now turned into just over £3000 incl sherforce fees. To date paid £2166.45.

I asked sherforce for a breakdown of all their charges to me, and guess what.. the fees have increased !

According to them i still ow £1412.21 ???

I find it very hard to understand the breakdown. Now they are telling me that if i do not pay the outstanding balance before the 1st of April they will apply back to court for a warrant (or something like that) as it only stands for 12 months.
This is so they can carry on taking payment from me. and the best bit is they said i will end up with the same charges again.

Im at a loss, they have only come to my door once. I agreed a payment plan with them. Where do they get off ?

[tonycee]

Hi boatman.

Do YOU think they are reasonable?

Personally i think they are fraudulent, and amount to an act of theft.

They have tried to charge my friend £600 odd for the first letter, and £200 for the second.

Here is what they can charge.

I am interested in what you think.




.Max.

You might find your answers in link 14 HERE.

Again, im interested in your thoughts.

[madmax1973]

Hi tonycee,

Im new to this game ! great site though, just wish i had found it months ago, i have been pulling my hair out, at a total loss. It is great that the "courtofficer" can offer this advice, it helps a great deal. It just would be good if some of the words were put in "laymans terms" !! or explain what these words mean or what the HCEO has to actually do to charge "a fee"

example... "Walking Possession" .. what does he do for that ?... See that you came out of the front door !!

[boatman63]

Hi Tonycee

I certainly don't think that they are reasonable. I'm not sure of the best way to proceed though. Clear the debt first as CourtOfficer suggests, yes of course. Send a Subject Access Request to the company after that fine. But then what.

As I explained the guy who has contacted me says he is a HCEO, although he is not listed either on his companies web site as one, or on the DCA Directory of High Court Enforcement Officers.

I have read a link on here about complaining about a Certificated Bailiff, a FORM 4 COMPLAINT. Is this only for Certificated Bailiffs or can I use this for this case.

OR

As I am questioning reasonableness of the fees should I go down the 'detailed assessment' route. With this will the court make a judgement about the legality of the fee and if found to be illegal cancel it or will they work out the correct fee for me to pay. Also I believe that there is a court cost involved in this will I have to pay this if the bailiffs fees are found to be unreasonable?

[tomtubby]

WHERE ARE THESE BAILIFF FEES COMING FROM !!!!!!

The following is a copy of the Statutory Regulations relating to the fees that High Court Enforcment Officers can charge:

STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS


2004 No. 400
SUPREME COURT OF ENGLAND AND WALES

The High Court Enforcement Officers Regulations 2004
SCHEDULE 3 Regulation 13

FEES CHARGEABLE BY ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS



A. Fees chargeable on execution of writs of fieri facias

1. Percentage of amount recovered


For executing a writ of fieri facias, the following percentages of the amount recovered:

(a) on the first £100........5 per cent

(b) above £100...............2.5 per cent


2. Mileage

Mileage from the enforcement officer's business address to the place of execution and return, in respect of one journey to seize goods and, if appropriate, one journey to remove the goods: 29.2 pence per mile, up to a maximum of £50.00 in total


3. Seizure of goods

For each building or place at which goods are seized........£2.00


4. Making enquiries or dealing with claims for rent or to the goods

(1) For making enquiries as to claims for rent or to goods, including giving notice to parties of any such claims...........a sum not exceeding £2.00

(2) For all expenses actually and reasonably incurred in relation to such work including any postage, telephone, fax and e-mail charges...........a further sum not exceeding £2.00

5. Taking possession, removal and storage of goods

(1) Where a person is left in physical possession of goods seized.......£3.00 per person per day

(2) Where an enforcement officer takes walking possession under a walking possession agreement in the form set out in Schedule 4 to these Regulations.........£0.25 per day

(Fees 5(1) and 5(2) are payable in respect of the day on which execution is levied, but fee 5(1) may not be charged where a walking possession agreement is signed at the time of levy.

Fees 5(1) and 5(2) may not be charged after the goods have been removed.)



It is about time that debtors started challenging the fees being charged by High Court Enforcment Officers as I have yet to see ONE case in our office that even closely resembles what should legally be charged. !!!

[10110001]

Originally Posted by boatman63

Hi Tonycee

I certainly don't think that they are reasonable. I'm not sure of the best way to proceed though. Clear the debt first as CourtOfficer suggests, yes of course. Send a Subject Access Request to the company after that fine. But then what...

Boatman, stop the faffing around and knock this on the head.

Do you have a credit card? Then pay the bailiff whatever he wants, THEN work out how much you have been overcharged & get supporting documentation. Tomtubby can give you this or look up the prescribed fee schedule for bailiffs.

Do a chargeback with your credit card provider under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 using the grounds the merchant (the bailiff) has defrauded the consumer by making a false representation to obtain a money transfer reglated under the Act. On your chargeback form say (precise wording): The merchant applied undue pressure on me to obtain a money transfer from my credit card, and it's debited right out of the bailiffs card-payments merchant account.

Result: your creditor is paid by the bailiff, and you get ALL your money back. Bailiffs are not allowed to defraud you. It's section 15A(1) of the Theft Act 1968 so its their loss.

Once that's cleared up then file a complaint against the bailiff at court.

[boatman63]

1011000

I don't have a credit card but I do have a Visa Debit Card, can I still do a chargeback with this?

Can I really do this without getting the court to rule that the fees are illegal?

How will my debt get paid this way, surely the bailiffs will not make payment once I chargeback and reclaim my money??

[CourtOfficerSpeaks]

Boatman

I doubt you'll challange the fees mate. Even Sherforce's would stand up in court. All you'd get is a cost order added to writ.

As for the HCEO that isn't registered. It doesn't matter.

[robin9342]

Originally Posted by CourtOfficerSpeaks

Boatman

I doubt you'll challange the fees mate. Even Sherforce's would stand up in court. All you'd get is a cost order added to writ.

As for the HCEO that isn't registered. It doesn't matter, Where i work, there's about 20 "Officers" on the phone. However there are probably only 6 authorised ones.

Of course he can challenge the fees. The fees are set in stone as shown by Tomtubby. Any HCEO attempting to charge more is breaking the law.

Yes, HCEO s DO have to be authorised! ;
The High Court Enforcement Officers Regulations 2004

[10110001]

Originally Posted by boatman63

1011000

I don't have a credit card but I do have a Visa Debit Card, can I still do a chargeback with this?

Yes, but its down to the goodwill of your bank, You need a concrete case proving you have been intentionally defrauded by a bailiff. Overcharged fees are very easy to prove because they are legislated and any fee that isn't prescribed is sufficient to revoke the whole transaction. That includes a card payments processing fee - even if its only £1 - because it's not legislated.

Originally Posted by boatman63

Can I really do this without getting the court to rule that the fees are illegal?

Yes you can do it without going to court, but you could face a civil claim from the bailiff if VISA debits the money out the bailiffs merchant account against this will. Bailiffs cannot enforce the same debt twice.

Originally Posted by boatman63

How will my debt get paid this way, surely the bailiffs will not make payment once I chargeback and reclaim my money??

You don't execute chargeback until the bailiff has paid the money to the creditor and the case is closed.

[CourtOfficerSpeaks]

robin9342, i see you don't agree. I assure you i'm not lying.

Can i ask, are you a HCEO by any chance? Do you work for Sherforce?

[tonycee]

C O S.

Nobody is suggesting you are lying.

Could you answer me a question please.?

How can a £1200 debt to HMR&C Become £2200+ Just because Sherforce have sent 2 letters.

Are you saying