Can i reclaim from Drakes

karenjen · 15th December 2007, 03:05

Hello
Yeserday I woke up to a neighbour knocking my door to let me know that my car had be clamped. I contacted Drakes (they had put a sticker on my car) I was told that I owed £835.96 for £250 penalty charge. Anyway I arranged payment they came and released my car. Only then was I given the Noticeof Seizure. The breakdow of the costs are as follows:
Penalty charges-250
Baliff attendence cost 328.69
Attendence to remove/removal costs 170
VAT 87.27
I paid out of desperation but quite honestly I think that something is wrong here. They did not make any contact at anytime with me before clamping my car. When I called they said that they caould not even give me a day as the courts sid this was the last day before christmas to receive fines.
If anyone has any similar experiences plaese tell me can I reclaim any of this money?
I am not disputing the original penalty charges.

Thanks in advance

Hippy-chick · 15th December 2007, 03:14

Just wanted to say well done for managing the new thread karen.

karenjen · 15th December 2007, 03:22

LOL.

Once I found it it seemed so obvious. I now hope that some one can give me some guidance here although I suspect that this is a lost cause.
Thanks again.

Hippy-chick · 15th December 2007, 03:25

No - I don't think it's a lost cause.

I'm going to pm someone for you who is pretty hot at this and ask them to take a wee look when they're online.

ChloeJane · 15th December 2007, 04:15

Hi there,

Firstly the penalty charge isn't right! Then neither are the fees!

You can claim your money back, though the first thing you need to do is send off for a subject access request. The link to a template I will post back in the morning.

It does take a while to fight for your charges back, but yes you can and yes you have grounds to based on what you have said.

As it is late, bare with me and will post back in the morning the links to information and further advise. Please be rest assured that you can claim the monies back as the fine alone is a maximum of £155, not as you have been quoted.

CJ

Hippy-chick · 15th December 2007, 04:18

Hi Karen

Here's a link to a S.A.R. that Chloejane mentions. This one mentions bank charges, so it needs amending, but the basic wording is there.

1. Data Protection Act, Subject Access Request letter - List of charges

John McKenna · 15th December 2007, 12:37

Can you post some more information please Karen so the fees can be worked out.

How many PCN's are listed on the Notice of Seizure?
Which local authority issued the original PCN(s)?
If there are multiple PCNs, are they all from the same local authority?

I work for Drakes. If you pm me the warrant numbers listed on your receipt I'll check them out for you.

tomtubby · 15th December 2007, 12:55

Karen

To enforce this debt, the bailiff by law must have a valid Warrant of Execution from the Traffic Enforcement Centre in Northmapton. By law also he MUST provide a copy for you WITH the Notice Of Seizure. There is clear legal ruling on this.

Did he do this?

If so it is VITALLY important to check the date on the warrant. This is becuase the Warrant itself is valid for one year only and CANNOT be enforced and neither can it be renewed. The secon dpoint and one that our office is seeing on an all too frequent basis is that the warrnt is just days old. This is of course wrong as BY LAW you must be sent a first letter (£11.20 plus vat) and be able to respond....one week is certainly not sufficient time.

In the case of Transport for London they stipulate in their contracts with the bailiff companies that a letter should be sent within 5 days of receiving the warrant, and a further period of 17 days MUST elapse before a bailiff should make an "initial" visit to levy execution of the warrant. In other words a bailiff SHOULD NOT pay a first visit until "at least" 3 weeks AFTER the date on the warant.

Most local authority contracts with their bailiffs provide similar rules.

Finally, by law the bailiff MUST be certificated. If you can PM me the name of the bailiff I will check our register.

John McKenna · 18th December 2007, 17:47

Hi Karen,

Here is your breakdown of charges. Please note this breakdown is based on the vehicle being clamped at 6am, no contact being made with the bailiff between 6am-11am and the bailiff "Attending to Remove" at 11.30am.

Fees Applied at 6am:

1st Warrant
PCN 125.00
Letter Fee 11.20
1st Visit 38.14
Van Fee 120.00
Clamp 50.00
VAT 38.38
=============
Total: 382.72
=============

2nd Warrant
PCN 125.00
Letter Fee 11.20
1st Visit 38.14
VAT 8.63
=============
Total: 182.97
=============

If no contact is made with the bailiff to arrange payment between 6am and 11am, the bailiff can reattend the premises two hours after bank opening time to remove the seized goods incurring a second visit fee and "Attendance to Remove" fee.

Fees Applied at 11.30am approx: (additional fees in red)

1st Warrant
PCN 125.00
Letter Fee 11.20
1st Visit 38.14
2nd Visit 61.16
Van Fee 120.00
Clamp 50.00
ATR 120.00
VAT 70.09
=============
Total: 595.62
=============

2nd Warrant
PCN 125.00
Letter Fee 11.20
1st Visit 38.14
2nd Visit 48.81
VAT 17.18
=============
Total: 240.33
=============

=================
Grand Total: £835.95
=================

Can you give us your version of events in detail?

karenjen · 18th December 2007, 21:50

Thanks for that breakdown it is very helpful. I contacted the bailiff on his mobile approx. 9am ant that is when he told me the total cost. He said that he could not even give me a day as it was the last day before christmas for the courts to collect the outsatnding fees. He said that I could use a friends credit card. I said that I would make arrangements and asked how long he would be to collect the payment. He said 10-15 mins I was in the middle of asking if he could make it a bit later when we were cut off. I tried to call him back the phone went to voicemail I didn't leave a message. About 10.30 I called him again to ask how long he would be he said that he was giving me more time as i had asked, he was just finishing a job and was 3miles away. I think he came half an hour or so later. I gave him some cash and the remainder on a debit card. He had a colleague with him that was driving. He then gave me the notice of seizure and the receipt. He then unclamped my car.
I have never received any letters prior to the clamp.
By the way I have just checked my bank balance and I noticed that my car has not yet been debited, I think i might take it out of my account tommorrow unless they get there first.

I think that i have been had by at least £200.

karenjen · 18th December 2007, 21:55

Actually I have just worked it out that they owe me 291.37!

10110001 · 18th December 2007, 22:17

Hope you paid by credit card...

If you didn't then you will have to reclaim it in the small claims track from the authority that instructed the bailiff.

NEVER, name the bailiff as the defendant, the authority is liable for its bailiffs.

One letter & ask the parking ticket issuer to refund you the money, wait a week then file the claim, that'll set a roadmap to recovery. It'll be up to the authority and its bailiff to sort out their differences between themselves afterwards.

Repeat, you must NOT name the bailiffs as a joint defendant. Overcharging a consumer is fraud and classed as obtaining a money transfer by deception and a criminal offence.

karenjen · 18th December 2007, 23:06

I paid £700 by cash the rest on my debit card (which hasn't been debited from my account yet - should I take it out before they do?).

Thanks for your advice. I am shocked at how a company can operate like this.:o

Renta Mouth · 18th December 2007, 23:29

wrong thread, no delete feature

PizzaMaker · 19th December 2007, 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by karenjen

I paid £700 by cash the rest on my debit card (which hasn't been debited from my account yet - should I take it out before they do?).

Thanks for your advice. I am shocked at how a company can operate like this.:o

Did you pay by Chip and Pin?

10110001 · 19th December 2007, 10:24

Drakes would have keyed the debit card as a customer not present sale.

If the consumer revokes a customer-not-present transaction then Drakes will be charged a £60 fee, and that comes out of their account straight away. Drakes will be charged another £60 straight away if they attempt to recharge the same debit card using their online terminal. This is bacause a sanction is automatically placed on the merchant account, its a safety measure to prevent fraudulent use of the online terminal, but you might have Drakes asking you for damages.

Speak to tomtubby on the legal ramification on bailiffs and an ex-parte revokation of a money transfer in favour of the baliff. I cant advise on this aspect of it.

I have a feeling you will have to reclaim the money through in the small claims track from the parking ticket issuer. They are liable for refunding you if you have been defrauded by their bailiffs.

Say nothing to the bailiff, write a letter to the parking ticket issuer asking for a full refund - everything, wait seven days and file the claim at court against the ticket issuer quoting Section 4(1)(c) of the Fraud Act 2006 and Section 15A(1) of the Theft Act 1968. Once filed this will set a roadmap to recovery, otherwise you will end up with months being fobbed off with excuses and protracted correspondence.

As the above legislation is criminal law, you can file a complaint against the bailiff with a police authority. Print your receipts out, show clearly how you were defrauded, along with a hard copy of above legislation. You have done the work for the CPS already so no reason why it cannot be referred to prosecution. Its an easy case. and you have all the evidence you need.

Then (and ONLY then) when you have a conviction, file a complaint against the bailiff with the court that certificated him. You can ask for compensation. The court cannot dismiss your complaint becuase the criminal burden of proof is beyond all reasonable doubt, where the county court can only judge on balance of probability.

Its lots of faffing around, but you will clear it up eventually.

Saffronflowers · 19th December 2007, 11:01

1010101100 - the whole debit card issue is very different from that of credit cards and is one that I have been researching and basically drawing a blank, however, it is with teh OFT though they are not overly interested but am plugging away

SFx

10110001 · 19th December 2007, 11:31

Hi Saf,

Credit cards and debit cards are two very different species.

The only commonality is they are a method of payment between a consumer and a merchant using an online PDQ/Cardnet terminal.

It's not really the OFT's domain. Regulating the banks is done by the FSA, and complaints about conduct of banks are handled by the

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