Preventative Measures.

[spork]

I am just about to open an account with A&L as a parachute - I'm currently with Cahoot - but was curious whether you could state when you open an account that you disagree or dispute any charges they make that would be considered unlawful, punitive etc.
I know they could turn round and say sod off, but normally with a contract, a business one anyway, you would hammer out the terms and eventually agree on the end result. Has anyone considered this?

[joneshousehold]

We have been thinking about this for a while. there is a section in the UTCC that reads

Unfair Terms
5. - (1) A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer.

(2) A term shall always be regarded as not having been individually negotiated where it has been drafted in advance and the consumer has therefore not been able to influence the substance of the term.

(3) Notwithstanding that a specific term or certain aspects of it in a contract has been individually negotiated, these Regulations shall apply to the rest of a contract if an overall assessment of it indicates that it is a pre-formulated standard contract.

(4) It shall be for any seller or supplier who claims that a term was individually negotiated to show that it was.

We have thought about trying to negotiate individual terms but have not had the opportunity to carry it out in practice yet. If we tried to place a bet on it the odds would not be good.

It would be easy for us to say give it a go but as we have so far not had the nerve to do it ourselves it would be unfair (and how would that look on a forum that relies on the fight against unfair terms!) but if you fancy a challenge we would love to hear how you get on.

What does anyone else think?

[Spiceskull]

I agree completely - and it is strange because this post discusses Ts&Cs for a credit card which specifically state that

MPORTANT – READ THIS CAREFULLY TO FIND OUT ABOUT YOUR RIGHTS
The Consumer Credit Act 1974 lays down certain requirements for your protection which should have been complied with when this agreement was made. If they were not, we cannot enforce this agreement without a Court order.

Holiday club.... Suckered!

[joneshousehold]

I must admit I have quoted term & conditions back at a store card (Argos and Homebase).

Joneshousehold v Argos

Admittedly they haven't replied as yet (I think they are still scratching their heads!) but the bottom line is that the terms must be free for each party to negotiate on.

Do you know what really gets my goat about all this. These banks, credit card companies etc - they have full time well paid legal staff who must know about UTCC. If only we could get our hands on the advice they have given. I know there's legal privilege but even so the hierarchy of these organisations must know what they are doing is wrong.

Did you see Maxie's post about her (I think it's a she -sorry if it's not) Court appearance today.

My Case Today

He did however say that the the original claim that the charges levied were "without question penalty charges and indefencable at law" these are his exact words - interesting!

It must surely follow that the Courts will agree the view that the whole contract is unfair purely because there is no negotiation.

[spork]

I have to say I'm am very sorely tempted to try this but as its a safety net for elsewhere I am a little reluctant on this occasion . However if the need arises soon.....

Keep up the good work folks.

[joneshousehold]

Hmmm, my thoughts to. Perhaps when all my claims are settled and I have spare time on my hands....