Karnevil v Abbey a/c 3 ***SETTLED IN FULL***

[Karnevil]

New thread started to seperate my three claims with Abbey.

Account Number 3********

Data Protection Act request sent 20th April - received by Abbey 21st April (with postal order)
Sent LBA for estimated amount £3240 on May 17th.
Have had no reply, except for standard 14 months statements, and bog off letter.

Deadline for Data Protection Act and LBA now passed.

Will begin claim with MONEYCLAIM as soon I can afford the fee.

[Karnevil]

I have today (3rd June) received a letter from shABBEY dated (get this !) 24th April !!!!!

Basically saying that they received my letter re Data Protection Act request sent on 20th April, and basically bog off your not getting anything except the last 14 months worth of statements. Also as I requested information on both my abbey acounts they say that they need an additional £10 for the other info which as far as I am aware is bull - as the DPA covers all info held about me by Abbey.

As it happens I had sent a second LBA covering only the other account a couple weeks later. So basically even though they are trying to stall things - I don't think they have a leg to stand on.

and... again they offer to send me microfiche records on receipt of an additional fee. ggggggrrrrrrrrrr.

The deadline has passed. I have the envelope post marked 1-6-6.

I have sent a prelim and a LBA estimated based on the 14 months they have sent me, and am meant to be submitting my moneyclaim this week, as all deadlines passed.

Now to do ??? send letter re non compliance of Data Protection Act, detailing all dates of letters etc ? Should I go ahead with Money Claim or hold off a bit ??????

[Karnevil]

Can anyone give me their opinion on this letter I am writing in reply to their I mention in my previous post. I dont know if i am trying to sort out too much in one letter ? and I am not very good at writing letters so have cribbed bits from templates, but had trouble fitting it all together. I'd like to send on Monday - any comments welcomed !!! be as harsh as you like....


"Thankyou for your letter dated 24th April 2006, which was received today (3rd June) and post marked 01-06-06, regarding my subject access request.

Further to the comment 'However as a payment of £10 is required for information on each account, as you have requested information on two accounts we would need a further payment of £10 in order to process your request' - you will note that a second subject access request was made to yourselves regarding the second account (5*******) on 3rd May, to which you have responded in a letter dated 25th May 2006 and received on 1st June 2006.

In your letter you outline that you could only provide me with printouts covering recent transactions on my account, because any earlier information has been archived onto microfiche.

My request was for a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my account since 2001 – in short, a list of charges with dates and amounts – alternatively, a complete set of account statements for that period will be acceptable. This should be retrievable from your accounting systems, and easy for you to produce. I will accept a computer print out of these transactions.

I am aware that you have been willing and able to provide other customers with a print-out of transaction information covering this period – and am ready to bring this to the attention of the Information Commissioner should it prove necessary. I would also draw your attention to Smith v Lloyds TSB Bank plc (2005) EWHC 246 (Ch). Should there be any further attempts to delay compliance, I will be left with no alternative but to commence a County Court action under section 7, and section 15(2) of the Data Protection Act 1998, and in due course, escalate this matter into an official complaint to the Information Commissioner and the FSA.

I have so far received statements from March 2005 - April 2006 covering both accounts, twice, and a printout entitled Contracts Staff Management Enquiry detailing transactions on both accounts covering the period from 31/01/05 to 24/03/05.

I have sent two letters, the last dated 18th May, requesting repayment of the charges you have unlawfully taken from my account number 3******** over the last 6 years, estimated to be in excess of £3000. In this letter I have given you 14 days in which to reply satisfactorily to my request and informed you that I would commence action in the small claims court to recover this amount from you if this deadline expired.

This letter has been sent by first class recorded delivery – as have all my letters to you. I will give you a further 7 days to send full information regarding both my accounts held with you (Account Numbers 5******** and 3******* ), and to respond to my request for repayment of charges on my account number 3********. After 7 days I will commence my action in the courts as outlined above."

[Karnevil]

If anyone can have a quick look at the letter it would be great - itching to file with moneyclaim but want to get it right...

[Karnevil]

Letter printed ready to send....

If I don't get a response on 12th June I report to Information Commissioner and CC action under section 7 - and file with moneyclaim for estimated amount £3240.

[Karnevil]

Feel like crying... went to the cash machine last night to get a statement to see what the overdrafts balance was )i expected it to be about £280 overdrawn (ie. within its overdraft) and instead it £495 overdrawn (£195 over overdraft!!!!) b*st*rds !

unauthorised overdraft fee 20.00
clearance fee 30.00
clearance fee 30.00
unpaid dd fee 35.00
interest charged 5.82
unpaid d/d fee 35.00
unpaid d/d fee 35.00

£195.82 !

and then two regualar small payments have come out for 7.75 which is fine, and another for 5.52 which is for www.which.net which I have told them to cancel three times now !!! (I canceled all DD's on a/c these are regualr visa payments which the bank 'can't' cancel) Can I tell the bank I have cancelled the agreement with 'which' and the payments shouldnt have gone ?

I have sent the estimated LBA and also a Data Protection Act non compliance letter to abbey for this account - next stage is money claim - Shall I put these charges on that ??

So that account is going to stay overdrawn now until my next Childbenefit goes in for £160 next month and then that will be gobbled up in charges... actually No it ISNT I will get CHB to go in my new account and Abbey can SING for their money.


edit: damn damn double damn - just phoned child benefit to change account but this months one has already been sent to Abbey - so I guess I have Lost the kids money for the month. Kicking myself i didnt call them last week to change it !

edit again: Postman just arrived with a lovely letter from Abbey telling me I am overdrawn on my account and I need to pay it in straight away. They have put the balance £487 then put PLUS INTEREST PLUS CHARGES.

Panicking now....

[Karnevil]

A couple of questions - will file my claim on the 12th with moneyclaim for reclaiming the charges (the estimated amount from my LBA plus those added since) Also how do I add the 8% interest on the charges as they are estimated ?

- shall i file for Data Protection Act non compliance in a seperate claim or the same one ?

If someone could read the letter I wrote to Pam on the 5th June (couple of posts above) and give me some advice on what to do next - I am getting confused and really worried about everything now....

[Karnevil]

As I haven't had all my statements from my Data Protection Act to abbey, and have sent them a LBA on DPA compliance and they are over the limit on the LBA too I am filing with moneyclaim on Monday.

I have worked out the amount from the last 12 months, multiplied it by 6 to get the total charges to claim for. The interest I have taken this figure, divided it by 72 to get a monthly figure and entered this into the interest calculator for each month from june 2000 to June 2006.

This works out as #773.26 interest on claim of #3435 - total including 120 claim fee of #4423.06

Does this sound okay ?

This is what i have entered in particulars of claim - 1071 characters.

Account ********. I have a contract with the defendant bank
which is conducted on their standard terms
and conditions. I am claiming the return of
money taken by the defendant in the way of
charges over the last 6 years plus the
interest they have levied on those charges.
The bank's charges are a disproportionate
penalty and therefore unenforceable as they
are contrary to common law. Further, as a
disproportionate penalty they are invalid
under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977
s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer
Contracts Regulations 1999. Para.8 and
sch.2(1)(e). In the event that the charges
are not a penalty then they are unreasonable
within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and
Services Act 1982 s.15. I have repeatedly
asked the bank to justify their charges but
they have declined to do so. The claimant
claims interest under section 69 of the
County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a
year from 12 June 2000 to 12 June 2006 of
£773.26 and also interest at the
same rate up to the date of judgment or
earlier payment at a daily rate of 0.022%.

I am expecting to send this to moneyclaim on MONDAY so if anyone can give me some advice before them it would be gratefully appreciated.

Many thanks

[jonni2bad]

The daily rate of interest is 0.00022 X and you can show this as an actual monetary figure.

From the details you have supplied above;
£3,435 charges +
£773.26 interest
= £4,208.26

this would then be multiplied by 0.00022 and produce a daily rate of interest of £0.93p (rounded up to nearest whole pence)

************************* ***

1. The Claimant has an account number here ("the Account") with the Defendant which was opened on or around date here

2. During the period in which the Account has been operating the Defendant debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

3. A list of the charges applied will be sent to the Defendant and the Court.

4. The Claimant contends that:
a) The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.
b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999), the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and the common law.

5. Accordingly the Claimant claims:
a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £charges total and any interest charged thereon;
b) Court costs;
c) Interest pursuant to section 69 County Courts Act 1984 from 12 June 2000 to 12 June 2006 of £773.26 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £0.93 or at such rate and for such periods as the court deems just.

I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true

************************* *************

You might run out of space on the Moneyclaim version, in which case you can either print off an N! form from our Template Library, or get one from your local county court and start the claim 'in person' - it can really add to the feeling of taking positive action against them and you should also be able to view the court itself if you ask politely!

[Karnevil]

Thats brilliant - thanks jonni2bad for having a look for me. I will try and get it on the moneyclaim form, but if not I'll print off the form (I saw a link to a printable version on this site somewhere) Where would I take it to ? The magistrates court ?

[Karnevil]

One question - as it is an estimated claim I won't be able to supply a list of the charges so will I be okay leaving this bit out ?

[Karnevil]

Sorry - another question - on the N1 form PDF I have completed brief details of claim but am at a bit of a loss what to put in the VALUE section ?

[jonni2bad]

You just go to your local County Court. If doing this, you need to hand in 2 copies of all documents (one for the court and one for the bank).

Since you are estimating your claim, you can still have an list of charges.

Any year with missing info will just have Total Charges and use 1st July in that year as the date from which you claim 8% interest on those charges total.

So, if you estimate that charges for yr 2002 were £600, then interest is 8% from 1st July 2002 - that would be 1440 days as of today = £190.08
You can still use the spreadsheet provided.

Does that sound ok?

[Karnevil]

Yes I think so. I'll work on it this evening.

I have put point 5 onwards in the section marked VALUE. Does that sound right ?

Thanks for your help on this !

[jonni2bad]

Copy all of this into Particulars of Claim on the reverse.

On the front, VALUE, simply put

Bank charges - £XXXX
Interest - £XXX
Court costs - £XXX
Total of - £XXXX
Plus daily interest at 8% of £0.XXp from the date of issue until settlement.

Below this, in the box marked Amount claimed, this should be charges plus initial interest shown above.

[Karnevil]

Okay I have put that in Value.

Thanks !

With regards the interest bit - shall I list the charges as;

Estimated Charges for 2002 £xxx.xx interest from July 2002 £xx.xx

until the ones I know about in 2005/06 when I can enter them as

Unpaid Direct Debit Charge £35.00 interest from 24th June 2005 £xx.xx


Sorry for all the questions - my other claim was a lot more straightforward as I already had all my statements !

[jonni2bad]

I think that's fine. You might even get all your charges info once the LBA for the Data Protection Act breach is dealt with.