Noobrider V Abbey ***SETTLED IN FULL***

[noobrider]

yes mine came from Bradford but i posted back to MK as that is where my original request went so its up to them to re-route... I'm sure we are allowed a few delaying tactics also . Knocks a few days off the 40 limit

[noobrider]

I had my wife dig out all the statements we had lying about the house for our 2 Abbey accounts. she found 22 altogether various months but none later than early 2005. I added all the charges up on those statements and it came to £4587. would this be an acceptable method for submitting a claim to court as we know thats where its headed...

If so, once i get my Data Protection Act request fulfilled and I have all my statements i can add up the remaining charges and submit a seperate claim for those not already claimed for. this way i can claim over the 5k limit without having to fast track....any thoughts?

[Karnevil]

that sounds like a perfect way of doing things to me ! and by the time you get your claim settled you should have the info ready for the next one .....

you never know once they get your prelim letter they may pull their finger out with the statements .....


........... or not !


one thing - the MODs might be able to answer - should you keep claims to concurrent months ?

[jonni2bad]

There is a point you need to be aware of.... I have amalgamated responses on this subject into one for you....

"If someone has a claim against a bank arising from, in this case, unlawful levy of penalty charges that have occured in the course of business, they all have to claimed at once, as they arise from the same facts. The facts being that they were levied for breach of contract. The reason for the breach e.g returned DD, bounced Cheque is not the matter at law; the matter at law is breach of contract and flowing from that are the charges a genuine pre-estimate or a penalty.

However, there is a way they could be broken up. If a series of charges arose, and those became the subject of a dispute and while that was ongoing or afterwards another set of charges occured that arose from the same set of circumstances than a second action could be brought.

However, nothing actually 'wrong' with trying, but it could cause problems later.

People should not be scared of the fast track - it's the normal/standard procedure for cases going through the system. There is no reason why a lay-person could not do a case themselves like on the small claim track. But a word of warning - costs are recoverable in a fast track, but limited, so it isn't the end of the world.

Fast track has it's advantages - mainly that the judge can order standard disclosure - and the banks definitely don't want this as "Stephen" discovered with the Abbey."

If, despite this, someone is going to attempt a sever, their best bet would be to choose the time frame that would allow the first claim total to be just short of £5000 rather than, say, just splitting it in half.

If, for any reason, they are later unable to claim for the 2nd part, they will have recovered the largest part possible in stage 1.

[noobrider]

interesting and informative post Jonni. So let me try and straighten this out in my own words to show that I understand what you are saying.

1. It's probably not the best course of action to take at the moment, unless possibly the Data Protection Act request fails to materialise and I could argue that due to the variety of claims and differences from month to month it would be impossible to reasonably estimate a claim and therefore a small claims procedure could be issued based on the evidence I currently hold. A second action could then be taken to recover the remaining amounts once the DPA had been forced, however this may encounter difficulties if a further claim were to be issued.

2. A better option would be to wait until the Data Protection Act request has been fulfilled regardless of how long it took in order to either a) issue a full claim in the fast track or b) sever the claim into concurrent time frames or seperate accounts making seperate small claims under £5k.

Interesting thoughts... I am seriously considering the fast track option, however it may be more of a financial decision as to which route to go down. What are the thoughts on successfully claiming an initial amount and then requesting the bank takes in consideration a further claim which could be settled out of court? A kind of ...well thanks very much for the £5k on this claim but just to let you know I have another claim ready to file, would you consider settling that without playing the whole game again?

[jonni2bad]

I would say that you seem to have understood events clearly enough. Whilst a small risk, the fact that a Judge WILL order standard disclosure is enough, we feel, to put the ball firmly in your hands with this case.


Even if you claimed, say, £4999 + interest, the interest would mean the cost of starting the claim would be £250, so you would not really gain anything in that respect.

For what it's worth, I would suggest you enforce compliance with the Data Protection Act request, if necessary, and then claim the whole amount.

[noobrider]

Quick update for those looking into parachute accounts. I applied for one on line at the same time as issuing my Data Protection Act letter, NatWest Step account. Took a little bit of time but this morning I finally received confirmation of new account number and the fact that my debit cards will be issued shortly.

For the record... applied on line 12th June NatWest Step account- 15th June some forms and documentation/leaflets were received. Posted back to Natwest 17th June confirmation of account set up and running 27th June.

Unfortunately its not in time for me to arrange my wage to be paid in this month so another £350 of charges will be deducted ...again...but at least I can rest assured that next month I won't have anything taken from my wage other than what I have requested ie DD's

[noobrider]

This morning I received 20 statements for each account all in seperate envelopes, poor old postie having to sort and deliver them. seeing as i have already sent a letter telling them that the microfiche argument doesn't wash, should i out of protocol/courtesy send one thanking them for what I've received but yet again reminding them I want the lot and you only have x number of days left to comply or just forget it and see what happens?

[noobrider]

OK I calculated all the charges made on the 2 accounts for the 20 months of statements that abbey sent this morning.

Joint account £3672.00
Single account £3802.00
bearing in mind Jonni's post how does this option sound?

As the single account is in my wifes name start a claim in her name for the £3802.00 based on the last 20 months of statements received.

Start a second claim in my name for £3672.00 also based on the last 20 months of statements.

That way both claims are for a set and clear period of time, both claims are in seperate names and seperate accounts, therefore seperate actions.

Once a full Data Protection Act has been received again make two seperate claims in the same manner for the remaining time period.

After the shock of these two claims I would guess there is a similar amount of charges for the remaining 52 months on both accounts...scary thought that the total claim against abbey is in the region of £21,000. (20 x 2=40 months = £7K each account = £14k + £7k already claiming) I have no idea what Monument and Capital One owe me but there must be a couple of thousand on each... no wonder i've always been skint... I've paid over £25K out in charges over the last 6 years.....

Jonni, could you possibly comment on my proposition as to whether this would be OK and if there may be any problems doing it this way?

[jonni2bad]

Hhmmmmm

Well, in theory, since your wife's name will obviously be on the joint account, they could, I believe, still ask for the 2 claims to be merged (if you were running them at the same time) and this would still put you in the fast track.

Also, remembering that it is possible for future claims to be denied if you split them, you seem to be on the low end of value / high end of risk.

If it were me, I would wait until I had all the info need, see what the figures are and make an informed decision at that point.

[noobrider]

ok good advice as always, I need someone to hold back this impetiousness. just the fact that this is an enormous claim scares me a bit and I want to use the tried and tested method that garauntees results

[comanche]

Be careful here. If the claim exceeds £15k it could well end up on multitrack rather than fast track. Multitrack costs are not capped and if Abbey chose to fight and they were to win, the costs awarded against you could be enormous.

Offsetting this risk would be the problem of standard disclosure for the bank and the risk of losing.

[noobrider]

OK this morning received a slightly different letter to what i've seen on the forums before

Dear Mr & Mrs Noobrider

Thank you for your further letter regarding your request for a copy of the transactional data held about your bank account.

I confirm that you have been given all the transactional data you are entitled to under the data protection act as you have been provided with all the transactional details that are held on our systems in the form of duplicate statements. As previously advised, any previous transactions have been archived onto microfiche and it is not possible to provide you with a computer print out of this information. As these microfiche records are not held as part of a relevant filing system, they are not covered by the data protection act and will not therefore be supplied to you under section 7 data protection act request.

We have received a £10 administration fee from you for the archived transactional data on account number xxxxxxx, and I can confirm that we are in the process of retrieving this information for you. Unfortunately we will be unable to proceed with your request for archived data on account number xxxxxxx until we receive the administration fee for that account. Please can I take this opportunity to assure you that any delay this may cause is unintentional.

If you have any questions please call us on the above number.

Pam Speed


What is interesting is that:

1. I made the original Data Protection Act request for 2 accounts 1 joint 1 single in my wifes name only and the latest response is in joint names

2. The account with the most charges on it is the one that I have failed to provide an administration fee for despite me not requesting anything of this nature. The £10 was the Data Protection Act fee, which hasn't been cashed yet.

3. The last line that states that any delay is unintentional.

4. A big deal is made of the microfiche not being covered under Data Protection Act.

Now i need a little advice.... do I pursue a Data Protection Act breach and push for the microfiche stuff. Deadline is 24/07/06.

Or do I submit estimated claims for both accounts...seperate and one at once as they are currently at approximately £3800 each and round them up to £4995 and let Abbey disprove...then go back for the microfiched stuff at a later date due to evidence of an early amount being with held or not available?

[Karnevil]

Hi Noob - I think you should wait until the Data Protection Act dealine is up and send an LBa for non compliance - then submit your est claims at the same time as your Data Protection Act claim. Just my opinion mind !

[noobrider]

Thanks Karnevil, I will heed your advice. I can at least start action on Monument as their statements arrived this morning...trouble is that is not as much as I anticipated but it will give me the experience for Abbey.

Interesting to read some of the microfiche argument busters that are surfacing recently.

[jonni2bad]

I would advise waiting for