us v the Abbey for £7,500***WON*** - Page 3

badboy · 12th June 2007, 22:17

thanks jo also dont let claiming your charges back get u down i treat it as a project and am looking forward to treat myself after they pay me out

ohoh4312 · 12th June 2007, 22:43

Was ironing and took a break - and sat on my glasses and completely trashed them!!!!

So am struggling to see computer screen, but all I will say is could not find any other info - Abbey seem to be hiding - followed loads of links on their own website for help re T & C's but pages have been deleted. Funny that!?!?!

Good luck

Jo xx

ohoh4312 · 13th June 2007, 10:46

Its just happenned again!!!!!!!!!!!!

Went to pay for something and card was declined. Can't ring them again - so mad I am sitting here in tears.

Anyone got any suggestions as to how I can sort this out please, please please!

Jo xx

andypal · 13th June 2007, 10:51

I know the feeling!! It happened to me already. I had r5ang Abbey this morning asking about the description/amount of chargdes that will be coming from account

today and was told, sorry cannot help as all our systems are down. It could be that they are 'genuinely' down or as usual they are 'shabby'. Not a lot u can do if systems are down. I'd ring Abbey- 08459724724.

Andy

ohoh4312 · 13th June 2007, 10:57

Oh I see - thanks so much for that Andy. Has made me feel better to know that maybe they are not victimising me then.

Thanks again

Jo xx

andypal · 13th June 2007, 11:23

Remember Jo, CAG is always here to help and give you support needed to help you get back 'ALL' your bank charges.

aNDY

ohoh4312 · 13th June 2007, 16:57

Cheers Andy xx

ohoh4312 · 13th June 2007, 17:13

Cheers Andy xx

Ok guys - I have been thinking for the last week or so that I have REALLY screwed up on my LBA, but was too embarrassed to ask anyone coz I would look stupid:o - no change there then!

Well here goes:

When I sent the LBA, I included a spreadsheet of charges that I had compiled myself using the calculator on MSE.

After "talking" to people here, I was advised to use the spreadsheet from here, and also to put in the description for each charge. I actually just amended my spreadsheet, inserting a new description column and copying the formula across for the interest calculation - seemed easier and it worked!

Anyway, when going through the statements to fill in the description, I realised I had made a mistake - EEEKKK!! I had entered one extra charge for May 2005, and I had missed out one month entirely. Having amended the spreadsheet, this increases the total charges by another £120.

So, am I in the doggy doo then?

The 14 days is up on the 21st, and I intend to submit the N1 on the 22nd, but if I submit a claim for even more than I originally asked for, will it all fall apart?

Also, my original claim is for April 2001 to March 2007, but obviously April 2001 is over the 6 year mark now. Do I have to change it for the Court claim - ie June 2001 to May 2007, or does it count from when you originally ask Abbey for the money?

I am sooo confused, and so all are of you now probably!

Seriously though, any guidance on this would be really appreciated.

Thanks

Jo xx

Leecabs · 13th June 2007, 17:25

Hi Jo,

When you submit your claim you must make sure you put in the correct charges, if you want I can take a look at your charge form send me a PM with your e-mail address.

I would only claim back to June 2001 up until present day (6 years), the main thing is you claim the correct amount when you enter the N1. I think a seperate claim would be best for the earlier charges after you have completed the main one, otherwise things could become more clouded leagally.

Regarding the amount on the LBA being different to the N1 claim does anyone know if this matters I dont think it does?

Cheers

Leecabs

badboy · 13th June 2007, 17:43

hi it does not matter if your N1 is different from your LBA as many people have incurred more charges in between sending LBA and N1 but what ever figure you put on your N1 is the one you will have to go with.....

ohoh4312 · 13th June 2007, 17:53

Thanks Lee, but I was actually hoping you wouldn't say that!

April and May 2001 were really bad months for us, so by taking them off the claim it amounts to a whopping £833 that we lose - poo! (Thats NOT including interest!) Whereas April and May this year there's hardly anything.

But I am VERY glad I asked that question - after getting this far I would be gutted to lose out because I had screwed up.

At least they might be more favourable now that the figure going on the N1, if it goes that far (of course it will!), will actually be lower than we originally asked for.

Now my thread title is wrong too!

I will amend the spreadsheet, and check it thoroughly again, and again!

Thanks again Lee, and will pm you in a bit.

Jo xx

ohoh4312 · 13th June 2007, 17:55

Cheers badboy for that - you guys are real stars

Jo xx

deedee1310 · 13th June 2007, 19:17

Hi ohoh3412.

I have made a claim going back to 1998. My accounts with Abbey are now closed (1 in 2005 and the other in 2002).

After various other threads, I realised that there is nothing stopping you from claiming beyond 6 years. They may quote SOLA 1980 (Statute of Limitations Act) but you should use s.32 to defend your claim.

Argument against Limitation

The Defendant marketed itself, and continues to do so, as a reputable Bank. The Claimant therefore had no reason to believe anything other than that the Bank would comply with all applicable Law.

The Defendant repeatedly stated its Terms and Conditions throughout the period which the Claimant has had the Account, including the level of its default charges.

On the basis of both these points, the Claimant originally had no reason to believe anything other than that the default charges which are the subject of the claim were lawful.

The Claimant continued to believe that the default charges were lawful until the publication of the Office of Fair Trading report (OFT842, April 2006) into Credit Card charges. The report stated that default fees have been set at a significantly higher level than is fair for the purposes of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999). The OFT stated that its findings were likely to be relevant to bank account charges.

The Claimant contends that the period of limitation on the claim is postponed by virtue of concealment or mistake by the Defendant:

either the Defendant at some point became aware that its default charges were unfair and unlawful and has concealed the fact; or
it did not but the default charges are ruled now as unfair and unlawful in which case the charges would have been a mistake.

The Claimant therefore contends that any period of limitation on any part of the claim is postponed until April 2006 (the date of publication of the OFT report) in line with the Limitation Act 1980, Section 32, subparas (b) and (c) :
…..where in the case of any action for which a period of limitation is prescribed by this Act, either :
(a) the action is based upon the fraud of the defendant; or
(b) any fact relevant to the plaintiff’s right of action has been deliberately concealed from him by the defendant; or
(c) the action is for relief from the consequences of a mistake;

the period of limitation shall not begin to run until the plaintiff has discovered the fraud, concealment or mistake (as the case may be) or could with reasonable diligence have discovered it.

The Claimant therefore respectfully asks the Court to rule on the lawfulness of the Defendant’s charges up to 6 years old. If the Claimant is unsuccessful in that part of the claim, the issue of any period of limitation on the older charges falls away. If the Claimant is successful in that part of the claim, the matter of postponement of the period of limitation on the older charges can be ruled upon.

This advice was given to me by Mad Nick, see his thread Mad Nick v Abbey ***SETTLED IN FULL***

Hope this helps.

ohoh4312 · 13th June 2007, 19:50

Wow, thanks DeeDee

Thats real complicated legalese(!) but I get the gist of it - just!

Really in a quandry now - thinking I would just be better to go for the lower amount, which with 8% interest and costs etc is still just over £9,000, rather than risking it all for the sake of the extra £833 plus interest = £1,240.

I have so many doubts in my own ability to get this right anyway, I really don't think I could argue on the Statute of Limitations too!

I will ponder this one long and hard - well for a week anyway, before I have to submit N1!

Thanks again

Jo xx

deedee1310 · 13th June 2007, 21:00

No problem.

To be honest, it has been twisting my brain too. However I re-read it before I sent it to you and it actually makes sense now.

I had to go back that far else I would have lost over £1000 on the 1st account I am claiming for. It's my money so the cheeky b**gers are not going to be allowed to keep it!

I not as far as you yet. I sent my preliminary letter on Monday (deemed served Tuesday), by Special Delivery. They wrote me the standard "fob off" letter that same day, which I received today! I'm delighted!

I think you need to go with what you feel the most comfortable with. At the end of the day £9k is still a lot of money (can't believe you've had that much taken off you)!!

Anyway, I have subscribed to your thread and will be watching with interest. My thread is here in case you're interested deedee1310 v Abbey

Wishing you all the best.

deedee

ohoh4312 · 14th June 2007, 11:59

Thanks DeeDee - was up all night thinking about this

I have decided to go with ALL the charges - they sent me data going back to the start of 2000, so I am going for it big time! (omg!)

Have been reading BankFodders post re the over 6 years argument, and now it makes sense. So I thought if I am going to put myself through all this, I might as well go for as much as possible!

The way I understand it, if the SoLA argument is thrown out, I am still eligible to claim for the 6 years charges. Am I right on this please?

Thats my only fear (and it's a pretty big fear at that!) - that by being too greedy, I run the risk of losing it all.

Thanks

Jo xx

ohoh4312 · 14th June 2007, 13:27

Sorry to bump again - but it will be the last time.

Was having a major clearout and found a file at the back of the cupboard with all the blooming statements going back to 2001. I was fed up that I had spent a tenner getting all the info, but pleased on the other hand that I had the back-up data to their microfiche lists.

Until I decided to add the charges from previous to my original claim, and there werent any?????

Then I checked the statements for the months I had done - and there are NO CHARGES STATED anywhere

For 2001 to 2003, all it says on the statements is debit/credit interest on the balance, but the microfiche data shows c.£2,500 of charges for that period. I really don't understand it, have checked and checked and checked and none of it makes sense.

So I am thinking of just giving up - if by any chance Abbey still have copies of those statements I havent got a cat in hell's chance of getting anything. I know for a fact that we DID pay extortionate amounts in charges over that period, but I havent got concrete proof, just two conflicting sets of documents. It probably doesn't show, but I am so upset and angry by this, mostly at myself. Told you bad luck was my middle name, didn't I?

I probably sound like a complete wuss, but to be honest this whole thing is putting so much strain on me already, that I don't think now I could try to see it through, knowing that it could all go horribly wrong and be a complete waste of time.

So huge thanks to all who have helped and advised, and I am really sorry to have wasted your time. I wish you all the best of luck, and hope between you, you take Abbey to the cleaners!

Godd Luck and Best Regards

Jo xx

fatbulldog · 14th June 2007, 13:49

Hi,

They did they same to me my claim is £7500 plus interest. Refunded £800 into my account. I wrote using a template letter on this site to say thanks but would not accept this as final setttlement. I didn't wait for their stage 2 just issued court papers. I really wouldn't wait around for them. If we moved at their speed we would all still be waiting for them to look into our complaint!!!

Just to warn you they probably will file their standard defence at the very last moment, just as you think they won't bother! I have just had a directions hearing come through for August! Bearing in mind how clogged up the court system is getting I would advise you to plough on regardless of their stage 2.

Good Luck
Angela.

deedee1310 · 14th June 2007, 14:04

Hi ohoh!

Are you able to scan in an example of your actual statement and the printout you received from shAbbey (with all personal data removed of course)!

Maybe we can look and see what you might be missing.

I'd hate to see you give up after coming this far.

Dx

Suzylou · 14th June 2007, 14:29

Can I ask a question please, I have had the usual GOGW, but unfortuantely that was a while back now, in March do i reissue my claim all over again or can I go to getting the court papers ready. I sent the letter to accept the charges refunded 600.00 against a 4500 claim

CAG Products - We think that these will help you to make your claim or Reclaim your Right These sales also help us to keep helping YOU and ensure this site will remain free to use!

Small Claims Kit--	Small Claims Court Guide New Edition	Consumer Action Group envelope labels	Last Will & Testament Kit	Fight a Motoring Ticket

Alternatively you could purchase a CAG email address here, or maybe you'd prefer our address labels here
UPDATE: Consumer Forums ConsumerWiki is now LIVE - click here: ConsumerWiki